NewStats: 3,259,576 , 8,170,553 topics. Date: Sunday, 25 May 2025 at 04:06 PM 2f1r54

Bring who to justice? Before the British came, didn’t we have empires here in Africa that were doing the same exact thing to their neighbours? When you talk in glorious of “African empires”, what exactly do you think they were doing? How do you think they acquired the title of “empire”? Was it not from fighting their neighbours, destroying their villages, taking captives and extorting resources from those they defeated in battle (a.k.a., tributes)? Should we now start talking about bringing Oyo, Benin, Sokoto, Borno, etc to justice?

It was the way of the world. Get over the past and work on your future.

Love800:
Nationality, the identification of a person is when someone has stayed in a place for a long-time after being given birth to, that is the person's country of being.
For instance, saka is a footballer who grew-up in England. Its funny many people refer to him as a Nigerian because his parents are from Africa. Saka is an English-man with Nigerian descent. So let's stop mixing him up with where his parents came from.

Jennifer Lopez was given birth to by Spanish parents but she grew-up in America. So Jennifer is an American with Spanish descent.

It all depends on where you grew up. Not just by birth, but your evolving stages, where you started developing!

When you've experienced bare-faced anti-immigration and racist sentiments, you will know that what you've typed here is naive. Saka will never be an Englishman in the eyes of many English people. If you like carry British port and wrap yourself in the Union Jack, English people will still tell you that "a dog may be born in a stable, but it will never be a horse."

Christistruth02:

If the Igala of Kogi should start their own Now half of SE will disappear into Kogi State

Na Lord Lugard carry Igala Territories give you

You are kuku ungrateful to him for his efforts anyway

Y'all can talk a whole lot of kak. With the exception of a few border communities in Enugu and Anambra, where in the Southeast is Igala spoken the way Ika is spoken in Igbanke? When did a handful of communities in Anambra West and parts of Uzo-Uwani become half of SE?

And by the way, those border Igala-speaking communities have been saying that they are Igala for decades and nobody in Anambra and Enugu is disturbing them, nobody is suspending their traditional rulers.

You people get overly excited about nothing. That they have rejected Edo ethnic-hood does not necessarily mean that they have embraced the Igbo identity. If you go there and talk to them, many of them will simply tell you that their ethnicity is Igbanke - some of them don't even accept Ika identity, let alone Igbo. You will find some who self-identify as Igbo, especially around Ottah, but they are not the majority by any stretch.

Stop getting too excited.

Konquest:

@Redbonesmith


Are you trying to fanatically imply that Afigbo himself was above confirmation bias or mistakes that you have to place him on a pedestal? I even have a Guardian newspaper full-page article interview from the late 1990s where Afigbo himself CLEARLY stated what you are now trying to counter me for. That's NOT how to engage in intellectual conversations. I personally like to deal with evidence-based convos and expositions. If I hadn't had past convos with you before now and knowing full well that you're originally from Illah (which like Ebu, Asaba, and Okpanam, etc, is one of the Igala-associated communities in the Anioma area of Delta North) that I've had an interest in knowing more about since the early 1990s and you give some informed perspectives on this discussion forum, I wouldn't have bothered posting this reply.

Cheers.

Which one is fanatically in this matter? There is no need for superfulous and dramatic adverbs. I do not feel any particular attachment to Afigbo or any historian for that matter (Igbo or no-Igbo), and I certainly do not agree with all his ideas and theories - the same way I don't agree with all the theories and ideas of practically all historians that I have read their work.

I have however followed Afigbo's career closely and have read virtually everything he has published and even have transcriptions of most of his lectures, and what you just said doesn't sound like anything he has published, which is why my first inclination is to doubt you. If however you have a citation that could be checked out and can post it here, that would be nice.

And by the way, as a "history veteran" and someone with "vast knowledge of Nigerian history", I can see that the person you're responding to his comment made the ridiculous claim that it was Chinua Achebe who christened the Ìgbò people with the name "Ìgbò", changing the name from "Ibo". A completely false claim, but in all your "knowedge" you've made no attempt to correct him, but have actually piled on to continue labelling the Igbo people with the European corruption "Ibo". Interesting. Wonder why. 🤔

Konquest:

Succinctly stated.

Adiele Afigbo too is among the Ibo historians who peddled that same irresponsible disinformation you accused Achebe and Acholonu of doing. I have read Prof. Adiele Afigbo's works since the 1990s and he too sought to irresponsibly and dubiously claime that the places having "Igbo" as prefixes and suffixes in Yorubaland and his own part of South Eastern Nigeria have direct connections.

Some even FALSELY claim that Ibos gave birth to other nearby Nigerian ethnic groups such as the entire Igalas, the Idomas, right up to Benin, etc, which have been denied by these ethnic groups, and even one clown of Ibo origin that I saw on YouTube was trying to strongly convince a South African that the Zulus migrated from the Ibo area in Nigeria but the South African guy took him to the cleaners by poking holes in his baseless historical revisionism. Why these Ibo historians and writers developed a narcissistic penchant for stealing other ethnic groups' ancestral histories and claiming them as that of Ibos is a study in mental laziness, impulsiveness and other negative virtues exhibited by narcissists due to a lack of proper moral and cultural foundation.

Don't lie on the late Afigbo. Can you cite where he claimed that "Igbo" place-name outside the Southeast are connected to the Ìgbò ethnic group.

Kobojunkie:
LOL...You lot will believe anything to keep avoiding the issues raised on the thread by the OP, right? What will the ignorant not resort to all so he can get around broaching the issue at hand?

“Oh, look at me, Massa. I is not like them negroes. I agrees with you. Dem negroes is stupid.”

Kobojunkie:
Where is your picture of you, and the current Nairaland page as identification? Why do you require him to post his identification on a forum that allows individuals to chat without any such requirement? What in particular is the matter with you folks?

I can’t quite decide if you are an asslicker or his alternative .

DomPerignon:


How can you brazenly lie that you are the oldest tribe in Nigeria going back 4000 years and still claim to be Jewish that only came into existence 2000y ago?

The Igbo who claim to be the oldest ethnic group in Nigeria, and the Igbo who claim to be of Hebrew descent are two opposing camps that do not see eye to eye.

Don't make it sound like it is the same people who hold the two opinions concurrently, because it is NOT!

Here we go again....

Did you say all of this to the "uneducated idiot"'s face or did you run home to the safety of your keyboard like a little bitch?

TimeManager:
From Lord of Warri..

Anåmbra1stson dey collect.



-Kiss the truth!

Did the Anambra boy lie? Imo and Abia are oil-producing states and they are also in the Niger Delta; but If an Ìgbò man writes that they will use the oil of the Niger Delta to develop Igboland, will people not drag him on social media?

AlphaSoul:

Bump. PG 9
Interesting.

@bolded

How is it possible that you say NO one knows how old the object in the attached image is? With the advancements in the use of dating technogies, it should be easy to have a near-accurate age for when that object was made.

The primary method used by archaeologists to date items remains the radiocarbon dating method. And since this method relies on dating organic materials like wood or charcoal that are found in the same archaeological stratum as the item to be dated, when metal items are found in non-archaeological contexts (i.e., above the ground), dating can become very difficult or even impossible.

The other dating method available, thermoluminescence, is not suitable for directly dating bronze or brass objects, and are mostly used to date ceramic ware.

Birthplace of civilization? Lmao.

Africans and delusions of grandiosity. Smh.

ChinenyeN:


You are right. Abala worked with iron. I only brought them up as an example of a community that lacked an oral tradition for casting, but still developed the trade. I brought them up to also suggest that the casting styles showing notable diversity could be due to cases like Abala, except it happened during the Lower Niger Bronze Age.

In other words, I suspect, as PhysicsQED mentioned, that of actual casting societies became well-traveled enough to reach various communities in the Lower Niger and teach them casting. These communities would then adapt a style for their local taste, but would quickly find themselves unable to on the casting practices/traditions for one reason or another (lack of raw materials maybe). And so the practice would abruptly fade away for that community. Likewise, the style they adapted would also fade to oblivion.

Oh I get it.

ChidiKalu:
The kingship stool of Aboh kingdom is even older than that of Warri kingdom

Nigerians are unduly obsessed with this idea of who is older than who. Even when there is no data on which to base their arguments.

How, for instance, do you know which kingdom is older between Aboh and Warri?

This would mean having to learn how each individual word is pronounced, which is a problem that a lot of people have with English. You’re merely trying to trade one problem for another.

ChinenyeN:
On the topic of the Lower Niger Bronze Industry...

This just crossed my mind. There is a community within the Ngwa-Asa-Ndoki axis that might present as an interesting case with regards to metalworking and bronzes in the Lower Niger area. This community is Abala, within Ibeme, in what is now Obingwa LGA. In past years, Abala developed some notoriety, because of its metalworking. In particular, its history as a local, indigenous gun factory.

Within all this, what is interesting is that Abala has no oral traditions that highlight or even mention metalworking in its early settlement history. Also, the community which they migrated from, now in Ukwa East LGA, also has no casting traditions of any kind. Yet, the Abala community actively engages in metalworking. I've asked around, but have yet to get a good response regarding how metalworking was introduced to Abala (though I could make some inferences). For all intents and purposes the metalworking tradition in Abala can be likened to a 'random manifestation'.

If one considers Abala as a case study of sorts, then a case might possibly be made for other such 'random manifestations' in the Lower Niger region; random manifestations which fizzled away almost quickly as they came to be established. This might explain the stylistic diversity found among Lower Niger brass/bronzes, and help provide a reason for why it has so far proven difficult for the academia to localize the works.

Was Abala known for making brass/bronze items? I thought they only worked with iron.

What does “ofi” mean in Ofi Okan Sanko and Ofi Okan Yena?

Also what does Ijofi and the title Lijofi or Lejofi mean? Any connection with Ogun?

Cc: macof TAO11

DuBLINGreenb:
I did this, I am from Rivers State I didn’t see any DNA match who is Igbo.



So igbo people, Rivers state is not Igbo. Thank you.

Regions: Delta, Edo, Lagos, Rivers, Bayelsa

I sometimes wonder if the problem Nigerians have is comprehension, or if they deliberately distort what is being said, so they can argue nonsense. No Igbo person I know has ever said that Rivers State as a whole is Igbo.

What you should have done is to tell us your specific ethnicity. Rivers is not an ethnicity. It would seem you are Ijaw. Ijaws are not Igbo, and no serious Igbo person has ever claimed they are. However, if it turns out you are Ibani-Ijaw, and your DNA shows no match from Igboland, that would be an interesting result - every student of history knows Bonny absorbed a large number of Igbo slaves at the height of the trans-Atlantic traffic and shortly after. This also happened on a smaller but still significant scale in Okrika and Kalabari.

You not being matched with anybody from the Southeastern states can as well be as a result of limitations in the database of the DNA-testing company you used, since they can only match you with what they have already got in their database.

The reason African history is still not a respected field of enquiry is that African history is the only branch of historical studies where we place higher value on the monarchs and chiefs and random old men, rather than on the words of archaeologists, ethnographers and ethnologists, historians and anthropologists, linguists and philologists.

Kreesxxx:
Ikwerres have a very rich culture and very welcoming and friendly. Most people including the Igbos who have lived among them would always want to identity with them. Have you seen the Ikwerre waist dance before? Most Igbos have learnt it. In years to come they will claim Ikwerre learnt from them.
Ikwerres are hospitable, lively and welcoming.
Igbos just want the identify with this rich culture.
Enjoy the dance steps and gyration as they call it.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19rgpj4pjc/
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1PMq7xS3fW/

Steady coming up with nonsense. Do you know how many cultures in Africa that have vigorous waist dances?

The vast majority of Yorubas who were landed in the Americas between the 1600s and the 1800s were, in fact, slaves. Atakunmosa never lived in Brazil. There’s no shred of tradition that says he ever left the coast of Nigeria. His name suggests that he was familiar with the lagoon area (which is not strange, given that he was known to be a protege of the Benin State which in that time had some control and influence along the coast). But thats where it ends. He never got on a ship and sailed to Brazil. Calm down. Take it easy with the fabrications.

The survival of Yoruba culture in the Americas is easily explanable.

First, the Yoruba people were one of the few peoples in Tropical Africa to develop religious institutions that were “universalist” and non-parochial, and thus could be exported across cultural lines. In the multicultural atmosphere of the Afro-American world, these institutions could thus outcompete the institutions of groups like the Igbo, Akan, Mende, which were much more parochial.

There are other factors, such as the average age of Yoruba slaves. Many were adults, victims of the 19th century Yoruba wars. Adults are better able to carry and propagate their culture than children.

This analogy is stupid. Sorry.

Chinese and Japanese don’t even belong to the same language family, let alone being on the same linguistic continuum.

Chinese belongs to the Sino-Tibetan language family, and is not related to Japanese at all.

Japanese belongs to the Japonic or Japanese- Ryukyuan language family and is not remotely related to Chinese.

But Ikwere and what you call Igbo not only belong to the same language family (Niger-Congo language family) and sub-family (West Benue-Congo) and sub-sub-family (YEAI); they are actually on the same linguistic continuum (Igboid).

These are the facts.

yarimo:
And the pretending agulu fraudster is yet to visit or react to it, but quick at visiting in far away Niger state

How can this be your first reaction to 100 people losing their lives in the most gruesome manner? Why have you people allowed politics to turn you into soulless ani.ma.ls?


Tufia!

LOL. All these simplistic and one-angle narratives that "Greater Benin" propagandists love to throw around, while ignoring the bigger picture

For an actual , and not a one-liner from a biography, go and get "The History of Okpanam people" by the late Dr Sylvan Ebigwei. Dr Sylvan Ebigwei was before his death the Iyase of Okpanam. I'd take the of the Iyase of the town over the of a Peter that no one really knows. (For anyone rushing to come and tell me that "Iyase" is a Benin title, we been know. Nobody was ever denying that all over Anioma and beyond titles of Benin origin were adopted and used.) Ebigwei was, by the way, a one-time president of Aka-Ikenga, an Igbo socio-cultural organization and a proud self-identifying Igbo man.

Okpanam traditions (according to Ebigwei and other sources) is that it was founded by Nri people from the East (led by one Olisa Olu) who had earlier settled in the town of Uchi in Ndokwa area. Uchi is even a dialectal variation of Nri. (Nri, Nshi, Nhi, Nchi, etc, all refer to Nri, depending on dialectal variation. ) This is why Okpanam is still called Okpanam-Uchi to this day, in allusion to its Nri/Uchi paternal descent. Olisa Olu married an Igala woman of royal descent called Ogbe; thus, Okpanam has maternal Igala roots. But since we follow patrilocal/patrilineal descent, the resulting community was from its beginning essentially Igbo. The traditions also acknowledge that some Benin elements came LATER and were absorbed by the already established and existing Okpanam community.

But apparently, the Benin narrative has a way of usurping the prime position and quieting other narratives. The same thing that has happened to Issele-Uku; but thankfully, the aboriginal Ogboli people of Issele-Uku have started speaking up.

I still don't know how people will read an of a founder called "Okpala" who established a settlement called "Okpalani", and not see that this is not reconcilable with a non-Igbo origin.

Image: Chart from Ebigwei's book.

The pictures in the second row, how those two take resemble for your eye.

OfoIgbo:


Assume that there were one thousand Igbos a hundred thousand years ago, Igbos will be numbering in their billions today

That is NOT how it works. The Khoisan people of Southern Africa have been determined by genetic studies to be the oldest human group on the face of the earth. By your logic, they should be numbering in billions too.

But Khoisan people are only about 100,000 people today.

OfoIgbo:


Culturally Igbos are more related to Jews than to Yorubas and Edos. You can take this to the bank.

NOw to further ruin your New Year, please go through this ruling from a Jewish Rabbinical court on Igbos

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a98cbc3b40b9da93f7c5126/t/61f35b8ad59d991291cab3fa/1643338634761/Teshubah-on-Igbo-Israelites.pdf

Ifele unu na-eme m.

It’s the first day of a new year. Your life must be really sad if you can’t find anything to do today other than to post this.

tungamaje:

You wouldn't have said all these if the AI elevated the Yoruba intelligence over the Igbos. Because I still hear, the most sophisticated, richest and educated tribe is the...

Negro, you don't even know me. I am Ìgbò; I'm not Yoruba.

It's also a function of the breadth of your mental faculty that you would think that anyone who says what I said has to be Yoruba.