NewStats: 3,262,967 , 8,178,694 topics. Date: Wednesday, 04 June 2025 at 09:27 AM 13412f

Good question, Sir. Take the then Igbo Kings of Ife, the Obatala for instance. One of their titles was Obi Osere Igbo. Now, let us analyse the title Obi Osere Igbo. The Obi part of the title is undeniably an Igbo royal title, as in Obi of Onitsha, Obi of Otolo, Nnewi, etc., etc., etc.

The Osere part of the title has a deep priestly significance in Igbo Land. For example, in the Igbo kingdom of Ogwuta in Imo State, their priests have inherited the title Osere. In Ogwuta, the Osere is the Chief Priest of the Owu Institution. (Does the word Owu ring a bell?. Don't say no o.)

Okay, let's continue with our analysis of the Oba Igbo's title, Obi Osere Igbo.

The last part of the title Igbo is self explanatory. If one should translate that Obatala title from Igbo to English, it would simply mean Priest King of the Igbo. Mind you, ancient Igbo Kings like the King of Nri, where the aboriginal Igbo of Ife originated according to History of the Igbo World by Prince Charles Offokaja were and are priest kings.

Even Catherine Acholonu, whom you despise, told us of a trip she took to Cuba, where she saw a statue of Obatala built by Afro Descendants (probably from Ife) in which the following phrase was inscribed Obatala, King of the Igbo Nation. This phrase is so insightful that I will repeat it, Obatala, King of the Igbo Nation. These and other facts are documented in the book, History of the Igbo World, which you can purchase at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K4AIUO8 at a very affordable price. In fact, if you had read the book, you wouldn't have asked me such an easy question. Oga, bring difficult questions na.

You are confused.
And doing your best to confuse other ignorant people.

You cannot talk about the history of the Yorubas without IFA.

"Moremi Ajasoro (Yoruba: Mọremí Àjàṣorò) was a legendary Yoruba queen and folk heroine in the Yorubaland region of present-day southwestern Nigeria who assisted in the liberation of the Yoruba kingdom of Ife from the neighbouring Ugbo Kingdom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moremi_Ajasoro
"Ugbo Kingdom is a town in Ilaje local government area of Ondo State, South West Nigeria. The people of Ugbo Kingdom are predominantly fishermen"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugbo_Kingdom

The history is about ancient Ugbo, not the Ibo of SE, a people discovered and trained by British colonial officers.

The more we learn about ILE-IFE, the more we realize how cultural powerful and ancient it was.

IFA alone United many cultures and people that traced their people to IFE. Even their closest relatives in Bini from Uhe and Ijaw that claim Adamu (Oduduwa) now want to be independently known as separate people or snatch Yoruba glory from the top as the father. Especially, those in Nigeria.

As we found out that Ijaw, Ogiso and Igbo or Ibo also originated from Ife, their suzerainty fall apart. Interestingly, those that originated from IFE outside Nigeria still cling to IFE while those in Nigeria claim suzerainty. .

It has been postulated that these people are one and the same people separated by modern day politics. Interesting they all claim they came from Egypt, a new world compared to IFE.

On their way to and from Egypt to the same location or nearby, they never met?

Good question, Sir. Take the then Igbo Kings of Ife, the Obatala for instance. One of their titles was Obi Osere Igbo. Now, let us analyse the title Obi Osere Igbo. The Obi part of the title is undeniably an Igbo royal title, as in Obi of Onitsha, Obi of Otolo, Nnewi, etc., etc., etc.

The Osere part of the title has a deep priestly significance in Igbo Land. For example, in the Igbo kingdom of Ogwuta in Imo State, their priests have inherited the title Osere. In Ogwuta, the Osere is the Chief Priest of the Owu Institution. (Does the word Owu ring a bell?. Don't say no o.)

Okay, let's continue with our analysis of the Oba Igbo's title, Obi Osere Igbo.

The last part of the title Igbo is self explanatory. If one should translate that Obatala title from Igbo to English, it would simply mean Priest King of the Igbo. Mind you, ancient Igbo Kings like the King of Nri, where the aboriginal Igbo of Ife originated according to History of the Igbo World by Prince Charles Offokaja were and are priest kings.

Even Catherine Acholonu, whom you despise, told us of a trip she took to Cuba, where she saw a statue of Obatala built by Afro Descendants (probably from Ife) in which the following phrase was inscribed Obatala, King of the Igbo Nation. This phrase is so insightful that I will repeat it, Obatala, King of the Igbo Nation. These and other facts are documented in the book, History of the Igbo World, which you can purchase at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K4AIUO8 at a very affordable price. In fact, if you had read the book, you wouldn't have asked me such an easy question. Oga, bring difficult questions na.

Nobody where are you?

ImperialYoruba, where are you?

OlaoChi:
learning igbo history from yoruba history or hebrew history will only make you look insane. 'Igbo' is the Oyo/standard yoruba dialectical variation, just like Ife is really 'Ufe', it is Ugbo of Ondo state not SE nigerian Igbos

Bump.

OlaoChi:
many of these people will swear they are doing good for their ethnicities by clinging to other people but its just an insult to me, telling the world that we dont have our own history. At least this case it's yoruba-Igbo

it gets worse when an igbo person will be reading Bible to learn Igbo history and start saying nonsense about Igbos originating from Israel

Succinctly put.

OP: Pg1

Update: The Ooni of Ife has just confirmed that Igbos used to be in Ife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSrkMZP71B4

This is a total FALSEHOOD of history by the OP. NO Ibo used to be in Ufe. Period.

ImperialYoruba:


There is no tribe known as Igbo. Ibo is the correct tribal identifier. However, after studying history of Nigeria and the roots of indigenous people and Ibo could not be traced to any significant greatness in the region, Chinua Achebe, a man respected amongst his people for his penmanship updated Ibo to Igbo and led a rewrite and revision to attach Ibo to Igbo and thus to Ife and its history. He did not appear to know about the existence of Ugbo people in Ondo State.

His revision had for a time being gained ground and spread due to initial under-estimation and dismissal by Yoruba historians as inconsequential . This is similar to the attempted revision by last Oba of Bini, claiming Bini was not an offshoot of Yoruba dynasty.

Soon Yoruba historians, and in particular Ugbo priests and their King laid out in detail and chronology order, citing their culture, shrines, deities, belief systems, worship, customs, songs, dance, and many other customs of their land are mirrored in Ife, and challenging Achebe to, not only refute them with facts but also, give chronological footprint of Ibo or Igbo in Ile Ife.

The outcome was that another rewrite displaced the previous in which Ile Ife dissapeared from Achebe's claims of ownership. Unfortunately for him, the term Igbo had caught on in a wild spread and gained acceptance by Ibo people and so it remained till today. The word Biafra is another steal from the people of oil coast who were the original Biafrans. They did not fight back and so Ibos succeeded in taking ownership and claiming Biafra.


There were two literary frauds in Ibo history known for stealing ideas and cultural roots that belonged elsewhere in a much respected civilization and converting it into a Ibo story and history to gain similarity respect and cognition. They failed in some they succeeded in some. Achebe is known for historical rewrites, Acholonu is known for art theft.

The frauds:
1 - Chinua Achebe
2 - Catherine Acholonu

Succinctly stated.

Adiele Afigbo too is among the Ibo historians who peddled that same irresponsible disinformation you accused Achebe and Acholonu of doing. I have read Prof. Adiele Afigbo's works since the 1990s and he too sought to irresponsibly and dubiously claime that the places having "Igbo" as prefixes and suffixes in Yorubaland and his own part of South Eastern Nigeria have direct connections.

Some even FALSELY claim that Ibos gave birth to other nearby Nigerian ethnic groups such as the entire Igalas, the Idomas, right up to Benin, etc, which have been denied by these ethnic groups, and even one clown of Ibo origin that I saw on YouTube was trying to strongly convince a South African that the Zulus migrated from the Ibo area in Nigeria but the South African guy took him to the cleaners by poking holes in his baseless historical revisionism. Why these Ibo historians and writers developed a narcissistic penchant for stealing other ethnic groups' ancestral histories and claiming them as that of Ibos is a study in mental laziness, impulsiveness and other negative virtues exhibited by narcissists due to a lack of proper moral and cultural foundation.

The post from the OP on Page 1 is CLEARLY one of the most IRRESPONSIBLE fabrications and revisionist articles from any Ibo person that I've ever read online or offline in my decades of advanced historical knowledge acquisition!

The original Ugbos of Ufe (Ife) who Moremi had an encounter with are pure Yorubas and a completely different set of people from those people living predominantly across the East of River Niger. The Ibos of the East of River Niger have NEVER been indigenes OR aborigenes of Ufe (Ife). NEVER! The Ugbos are pure Yorubas like I said above, who migrated from Ufe (Ife) based on Ifa divination instructions and they are located right now in Ugbo Kingdom in the oil and gas-rich Ilaje area of Ondo State. The current Oba Frederick Akinrutan of Ugbo Kingdom is direct descent of the original aboriginal Ugbos of Ufe (Ife) but NOW based in Ondo State after migrating out, BUT they still have their ancestral family compounds in Ile Ife just like the indigenous Awori-Yoruba people who straddle both sides of the Lagos and Ogun States borders ALSO have their ancestral family compounds in Ile Ife. All the Awori Obas not too long ago visited Ile Ife as a homage to their direct males ancestor Olofin Ogunfunminire who was an Ife Prince who had migrated from Ufe or Ife to what is now Ogun and Lagos States. The Olugbo of Ugbo Kingdom, Oba Frederick Akinrutan's Palace ALSO CLEARLY issued a Press Release warning the notorious elements among the Ibos to STOP spreading disinformation online and FALSELY claiming that Ugbo is the same as Ibo which it's NOT.

Enough of this relentless narcissism, disinformation and historical revisionism from a section of the Ibos especially online.

Konquest:

Succinctly stated.

Adiele Afigbo too is among the Ibo historians who peddled that same irresponsible disinformation you accused Achebe and Acholonu of doing. I have read Prof. Adiele Afigbo's works since the 1990s and he too sought to irresponsibly and dubiously claime that the places having "Igbo" as prefixes and suffixes in Yorubaland and his own part of South Eastern Nigeria have direct connections.

Some even FALSELY claim that Ibos gave birth to other nearby Nigerian ethnic groups such as the entire Igalas, the Idomas, right up to Benin, etc, which have been denied by these ethnic groups, and even one clown of Ibo origin that I saw on YouTube was trying to strongly convince a South African that the Zulus migrated from the Ibo area in Nigeria but the South African guy took him to the cleaners by poking holes in his baseless historical revisionism. Why these Ibo historians and writers developed a narcissistic penchant for stealing other ethnic groups' ancestral histories and claiming them as that of Ibos is a study in mental laziness, impulsiveness and other negative virtues exhibited by narcissists due to a lack of proper moral and cultural foundation.

Don't lie on the late Afigbo. Can you cite where he claimed that "Igbo" place-name outside the Southeast are connected to the Ìgbò ethnic group.

RedboneSmith:


Don't lie on the late Afigbo. Can you cite where he claimed that "Igbo" place-name outside the Southeast are connected to the Ìgbò ethnic group.

@Redbonesmith

First off, you aren't quoting a historically ignorant young person here. As a history veteran and older person, I have vast knowledge of Nigerian history including advanced collection of history books and personal archival materials in my home libraries right from the year 1981. It's totally "unwise" of you to say that I "lied" against the late Adiele Afigbo without getting to hear the full specifics from me.

Are you trying to fanatically imply that Afigbo himself was above confirmation bias or mistakes that you have to place him on a pedestal? I even have a Guardian newspaper full-page article interview from the late 1990s where Afigbo himself CLEARLY stated what you are now trying to counter me for. That's NOT how to engage in intellectual conversations. I personally like to deal with evidence-based convos and expositions. If I hadn't had past convos with you before now and knowing full well that you're originally from Illah (which like Ebu, Asaba, and Okpanam, etc, is one of the Igala-associated communities in the Anioma area of Delta North) that I've had an interest in knowing more about since the early 1990s and you give some informed perspectives on this discussion forum, I wouldn't have bothered posting this reply.

In any event, I don't readily have the source materials on the late Adiele Afigbo that you requested for right now but when I'm able to lay my hands on them, I'll share them with you.

Cheers.

Konquest:

@Redbonesmith


Are you trying to fanatically imply that Afigbo himself was above confirmation bias or mistakes that you have to place him on a pedestal? I even have a Guardian newspaper full-page article interview from the late 1990s where Afigbo himself CLEARLY stated what you are now trying to counter me for. That's NOT how to engage in intellectual conversations. I personally like to deal with evidence-based convos and expositions. If I hadn't had past convos with you before now and knowing full well that you're originally from Illah (which like Ebu, Asaba, and Okpanam, etc, is one of the Igala-associated communities in the Anioma area of Delta North) that I've had an interest in knowing more about since the early 1990s and you give some informed perspectives on this discussion forum, I wouldn't have bothered posting this reply.

Cheers.

Which one is fanatically in this matter? There is no need for superfulous and dramatic adverbs. I do not feel any particular attachment to Afigbo or any historian for that matter (Igbo or no-Igbo), and I certainly do not agree with all his ideas and theories - the same way I don't agree with all the theories and ideas of practically all historians that I have read their work.

I have however followed Afigbo's career closely and have read virtually everything he has published and even have transcriptions of most of his lectures, and what you just said doesn't sound like anything he has published, which is why my first inclination is to doubt you. If however you have a citation that could be checked out and can post it here, that would be nice.

And by the way, as a "history veteran" and someone with "vast knowledge of Nigerian history", I can see that the person you're responding to his comment made the ridiculous claim that it was Chinua Achebe who christened the Ìgbò people with the name "Ìgbò", changing the name from "Ibo". A completely false claim, but in all your "knowedge" you've made no attempt to correct him, but have actually piled on to continue labelling the Igbo people with the European corruption "Ibo". Interesting. Wonder why. 🤔

RedboneSmith:


Which one is fanatically in this matter? There is no need for superfulous and dramatic adverbs. I do not feel any particular attachment to Afigbo or any historian for that matter (Igbo or no-Igbo), and I certainly do not agree with all his ideas and theories - the same way I don't agree with all the theories and ideas of practically all historians that I have read their work.

I have however followed Afigbo's career closely and have read virtually everything he has published and even have transcriptions of most of his lectures, and what you just said doesn't sound like anything he has published, which is why my first inclination is to doubt you. If however you have a citation that could be checked out and can post it here, that would be nice.

And by the way, as a "history veteran" and someone with "vast knowledge of Nigerian history", I can see that the person you're responding to his comment made the ridiculous claim that it was Chinua Achebe who christened the Ìgbò people with the name "Ìgbò", changing the name from "Ibo". A completely false claim, but in all your "knowedge" you've made no attempt to correct him, but have actually piled on to continue labelling the Igbo people with the European corruption "Ibo". Interesting. Wonder why. 🤔

I had to take some time off from my busy schedule to type this. I took NOTE of everything you stated right above and agree with you on some specifics.

Just for more CLARITY, the Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary clearly lists "IBO" as an Anglicized and alternate form of "Igbo." Till date, I largely prefer to use the spelling Ibo by dafault (but use "Igbo" sometimes. It's my prerogative) and you MUST become aware that at NO time before the year 2000 was the spelling "Igbo" ever used widely in the mass media, official publications and literature. It was IBO we all knew over there in Nigeria. It was only AFTER the year 2000 that we started seeing "Igbo" with the letter "g" slowly creeping in. It was ONLY after the year 1900 under British Colonial rule that the spelling IBO came to be LARGELY used to group the Ngwa, Mbaise, Owere, Nkwere, Oka, Nsukka, Abriba, Aro, Ohafia, Abam, etc, and more, who had NEVER identified themselves as Ibo OR Igbo but used different clan names to identify themselves, sub-tribes and villages into a single group named and spelled as the Ibos. I will give more specifics right BELOW.


NOW, the folks born in my generation or age group ONLY used the spelling "IBO" and NEVER used the spelling "Igbo" in all our educational books, official goverment documents, in all the major newspapers such as: Daily Times, Lagos Weekend, Sketch or New Nigerian, popular weekly magazines such as DRUM, including publications and books written by Ibo-speaking folks such as Zik, Chinua Achebe, and prior to the years BEFORE year 2000 (and then after the year 2000 when the spelling "Igbo" started making inroads into the mainstream publications). I have a very good memory and even in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s, the novels, official goverment documents, newspapers and magazines, etc, ONLY used the spelling "IBO." It was CLEARLY much later after the year 2000 that we started seeing an alternate spelling gradually appearing. I don't know how old you are, but using the last born and youngest among all my biological siblings (He is a PhD holder born in the early 1980s, and now in his 40s) as a case study, I deduce that you were born in the early to late 1980s or part of the 1990s for you NOT to have observed OR have a recollection of these historical FACTS and spelling usage transition OR alternate use of Ibo and Igbo.

So, right from (1857) with the works of the iconic linguist and Anglican clergyman Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther [He was the maternal grandfather of the father of modern Nigerian politics, Herbert Olayinka Macaulay and also a direct royal descendant (through his mother) of the Emperor or Alaafin Abiodun of the Oyo Empire], in writing the FIRST EVER primer of the Ibo language, and later in 1882, Samuel Ajayi Crowther also wrote the first comprehensive dictionary in Ibo language entitled, "Vocabulary of the Ibo Language" based on the foundations of his earlier works as of 1843 in writing the Yoruba language alphabet, Yoruba Bible, Yoruba language dictionary, etc, and he used the spelling IBO in the FIRST EVER book in Ibo language in 1857 entitled, "Isoama-Ibo: A Primer." As I stated earlier, this primer was the FIRST EVER significant literary work in the Ibo language and included Ibo alphabet, vocabulary, sentence patterns, and biblical texts, etc. He was assisted by a young Ibo interpreter named Simon Jonas.


As you may already know, Igalas are today classified as a DISTINCT ethnicity who evolved over the centuries as a fusion of people of different ethnic origins, BUT Igala language is ALSO classified as a Yoruboid language alongside Itsekiri, simply because about 65% of Igala language is mutually intelligible with Yoruba language [with the rest of Igala language being partly of Idoma language origins] and the late Attah of Igalaland, Michael Ameh Oboni stated CLEARLY in a 2-page 2017 Sunday Punch interview which is still online that the Igala evolved from the fusion of migrants from Wukari (Jukunland) in modern Taraba State, who moved along the River Benue and got to the River Niger confluence where they met a SIGNIFICANT number of people of Yoruba and Edo origins, etc. So, he was merely emphasizing that Igalas have Yoruba, Wukari migrants, Edo, Idoma, etc, bloodlines over the centuries of migrations and fusions.

It's NOT surprising that the iconic Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther was earlier involved in the compilation, and publication (while working on the Niger Mission) in 1854 of the FIRST EVER known written book in the Igala language entitled, "A Comparative Word-List of the Yoruba, Igala, and English Languages" provided a comparative analysis of the vocabulary of three languages while working on the Niger Mission due to the similarities (especially between Igala language and the Eastern Yoruba-speaking people who have dialects and idiolects that are closer to the main Igala language). My jaw nearly hit the floor when I FIRST saw the STRONG similarities between Yoruba words and Igala words back in the early 1990s and this is similar to the stunned and excited reactions of Samuel Ajayi Crowther in 1854 about the similarities between the two languages. It's ONLY slight spelling differences that exist between some Yoruba words in Igala language such as: "Ogun" and Ogwu for war and medicine respectively, "Egungun" and Egwugwu for masquerade "Osu" and Ochu for month, "Ise" and Iche for work, "Ose" and Oche for soap, "Se" and Che for do/create, etc, BUT Yoruba words such as "Ogede" for plantain, "Ifa" for Ifa divination, "Ona" for road, "Oma" for child, "Omi" for water, "Ina/Una" for fire, "Fa" for pull, "Oke" for hill, "Ejo" for snake, etc, are common words in Yoruba language with exactly the same meanings and spellings in Igala language!

Incidentally, "Ona Imuda" is the longer original name from which the shorter name IDAH [Idah is the Igala ancestral and cultural homeland] which in Igala means "this road has ended." "Ona Imuda" is the longer form of the name "Idah" which shows another uncanny similarity between Yoruba and Igala languages in of the same meanings, referencing the arrival of the earliest Igala settler migrants to what is now Idah in Kogi State.


That sums up the thrust of my to you.