NewStats: 3,261,343 , 8,173,728 topics. Date: Wednesday, 28 May 2025 at 09:31 PM 18133o

it's similar but not the same.

sonmvayina:


The stories are different, because they are of different people and cultures, but the message they both convey is the same.

That's understandable, just read 2 Peter 3:7-10, don't just read verse 8-9. Read broader. You'll see it's about judgment and the day of the Lord to come.

Like I said, you mustn't agree with me but take your time to read it again.

Thanks for your time every time.

Kobojunkie:
Religion and lies are indeed 5 & 6— inseparable! 🙄🙄🙄

So, even though none of the two ages — Psalm 90 vs 1 - 4 & 2 Peter 3 vs 8=9 — makes any mention of the person of Jesus Christ of Israel or Adam, you instead instead that the ages are about Jesus Christ, some judgment and Adam? 🙄🙄

I can understand you. Take your time and study the bible carefully, and especially the verse in 2 peter.

You'll see that both verses are talking about the judgment to come. They're both pointing to the day of Judgment which will happen when Christ returns. That is the day reserved for all judgments, even the judgment on Adam.

It's ok if you disagree though, I'm not here to make you understand what I say, I just posted what I know. Whoever find it reasonable will learn from me, you don't have to. Thank you for your time though. Chao chao .

Kobojunkie:
Stop rambling!

That book claims that by the of two or three witnesses shall a truth, not spoken directly from the mouth of YHWH, be established - Deuteronomy 17 vs 6. So, we have two witnesses describing a day in God's presence as a thousand human years.

...


2. Wrong! A simile is a comparison made between two things as a way to reveal a likeness that exists between them. It shows a relationship that exists between one thing and another thing. It is about how two things are alike and the comparison is usually subjective, but since we are given the rule in Deuteronomy 17 vs 6, it becomes a truth—exactly that, a yardstick—as there are two witnesses to this in the book.

Oh I see but to help you better, Adam also did not eat because it was the tree of life that was given him to eat.

All the same, I think they are different story and the premises are totally different

sonmvayina:


Yes...but the same message.
Adapa did not eat it and ended up losing a chance at immortality
Adam ate and also lost the chance at immortality....
Same motifs, just recast.

I really understand your point and I see it.

I'm sorry I just need to make slight adjustment to your thought.

The bible never said that a day years in God's presence is a thousand years on earth. For context, you need to understand that simile was in that place to tell you that it's just figure of speech and not a fact. It was a figure of speech to say that a day before God is a very long time and when that time is ed, it's ed vividly. It's not a yardstick for time measurement. It's just figure of speech. Try to look at it again, pls.

Kobojunkie:
How can you and I be saying the same thing when nothing of what we posted is the same? 🙄🙄🙄🙄

There is no such thing as understanding the Lord differently. Have you not figured out that your many interpretations are nothing but spins, aka lies, when put against the details actually recorded in the book you pretend to quote from?

2. Huh? The book claims that a day in the presence of YHWH is as a thousand years, so are you insinuating that a thousand years has never happened on earth?

3. Adam is recorded to have died before he clocked a thousand Earth years.

4. Nonsense! If Adam already died before he clocked 1000 years of age, why in the world would he need to be raised to die again for Pete's sake? These una stories dey ALWAYS defy the stories written in that book. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

I hope you can see that non of these translation say Satan is an angel. The NIV calls him the morning star because of the bias that he's an angel but the JW and KJV don't hold such bias. To be precise, the bible calls him son of morning, in reference to Venus because Venus rises in the morning and falls in the evening. The proverb is more focused on Satan's fall from glory rather than the assumption that he's an angel.

But I do understand why you would say that though, I just wanted you to see that the Bible does not really hold such a sentiment.

MaxInDHouse:


Well this is what different translation say about Lucifer!

This is Isaiah 14:12

How you have fallen from heaven, O shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, You who vanquished nations! NWT (JW Bible)

‭
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! NIV‬


How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! KJV

I did, no it doesn't and the word translated as Lucifer were not actually "word" but a phrasal description of an individual. That individual was described as the son of the beginning indicating that Satan was a son of God so as Adam and Jesus so I don't know where you got this idea of Satan being an angel. Are you also saying Adam is an angel because the bible calls him son of God?

MaxInDHouse:


Well Satan is one of the morning stars the word translated to Lucifer could also mean shinning morning star. Isaiah 14:12

Check the King James Version and other Versions to confirm.

Thanks!

But this is a totally different story form the bible's Adam or what do you think?

sonmvayina:

Adapa, was like Adam, made from the dust or earth.
One day while fishing, he broke the wings of the south wind(Ninlil), that is the consort of Enlil. Who swore to kill him. Adapa ran to Enki and told him what Ninlil has swore to do. Enki told him that it was only Anu that can help and prepared him for the journey. He however warned him not to eat whatever food that is presented to him. So Adapa set out for Anu heavenly palace. He was ushered in by Ninghizhida (the serpent of the good tree) and Dimuzi (the serpent of the evil) when he got there.
After he has told Anu why he came, Anu told the two serpents to get him the food of life. He refused, because of what Enki had told him. When Anu inquired why he refused to eat the food. He said "My Lord EA(Enki) warned him not to eat of anything. Anu started laughing, because he found it funny. He then sent Adapa back to earth to face the consequences...
So that's how he missed the chance of being immortal.

We're saying the same thing, however, you and I understand presence of the Lord differently.

Presence of the Lord is the Day of rest, the day that has never happened on earth. It's in that Day that Adam will die. And we know that Jesus will bring that Day on earth in the end. Consequently, Adam will die in the end.

Kobojunkie:
This pronouncement of yours is unreasonable at best. 😏

Let's consider this issue from the angle of reality in today's world. Imagine Adam, while living on the Pacific Coast—California— in the United States, entered into a contract agreement that stipulated that penalties for breaking the agreement would kick in 24 hours after the fact. If Adam moves to Nigeria right after breaking the agreement, would the penalty be imposed following Nigerian time? Or would it be imposed on Adam 24 hours from the time he violated the deal back California? I think the answer is obvious, right?

The and conditions of the commandment(along with associated penalties) were established while Adam was in the presence of God, where a day amounted to a thousand years. Adam was living at the time in the presence of the Lord— a day is a 1000 days. So, your assertion that having moved to a new time zone, the original timezone where the agreement was entered into no longer mattered as far as the punishment that awaited Adam is a lot nonsensical. 😏😏

2. Nonsense!

3. Nonsense!

Did they say Satan is one of those people in the book of Job? I think the context of what we see in the book of Job is that the morning stars gathered and Satan (not necessarily a morning Star) ed them.

MaxInDHouse:
Who are those God called the "Morning Stars" in the Bible book of Job 38:7?

That's reasonable.

However, one of the reasons Satan could have fallen was because he was in a place meant for angel - that is, he wasn't an angel but went to a place meant for angels and that made it quite easy for him to be defeated.

Recall, Isaiah said Satan will ascend into heaven. It's a man that ascends into heaven. Just like Jesus, a man, ascended into heaven.

kppo:


According to the bible that tells us that heaven is where angels are.

It may look like that but that's not the case, dear friend.

The verse doesn't have anything like angel in it.

Also, the verse doesn't say how Jesus saw Satan fall, whether before he came to earth or seen in a vision as something to happen later. However, John, in revelation, tells us that Satan fell after Jesus rose to Heaven. And Even so, John didn't say Satan is an angel. This was just a traditional beliefs that has wriggled its way into modern religions.

kppo:


Luke 10:18 KJV And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.[b][/b]

The above verse talks about Satan falling from heaven where he was an angel.

Many assume Satan was once an angel, but the Bible never explicitly states this. While popular tradition teaches that he is a fallen angel, Scripture only implies it indirectly—never with clear, direct language.

1. No Verse really Calls Satan an Angel
The Bible mentions angels thousands of times and Satan dozens of times, yet nowhere does it say, "Satan was an angel." Even in Revelation 12:7-9, where Satan leads rebellious angels, he is called a "dragon" and "devil"—not an angel.

2. Ezekiel 28’s "Cherub" is Symbolic
Ezekiel 28 describes a glorious "guardian cherub" who fell, but this is directed at the “human king” (v. 12). Linking it to Satan is traditional, not a direct biblical statement.

3. Isaiah 14’s "Morning Star" Refers to a King
Isaiah 14:12-15 speaks of a proud ruler (the king of Babylon) cast down—not Satan. The name "Lucifer" comes from Latin translation, not the original Hebrew.

4. Fallen Angels ≠ Satan
Jude 1:6 and 2 Peter 2:4 mention angels who sinned, but Satan is never included in those groups.
Conclusion: Tradition, Not Scripture
The belief that Satan was an angel comes from later theology, not the Bible itself. Scripture describes Satan as an adversary, tempter, and ruler of this world—but never as a fallen angel.
If we continue to believe Satan is an angel, the Bible simply doesn’t it.

Tell me about this Adapa story pls

sonmvayina:
Like I always say here, if you like learn, if you like don't....
The Torah was written when the isrealites returned home from the Babylonian exile by a group of priest led by Ezra. The creation of the universe and the subsequent introduction of death are all a summary of the creation of the universe by Marduk. The Adam and Eve story is an adaptation or a recast of the Adapa story. It just tells how man lost the chance of immortality. The spirit is immortal but man is not. The spirit is the same image and likeness as God, while the body is same image and likeness as the earth.
Man is made up of dust of the earth and the breath (spirit) of God. When Adam(man) ate the fruit he brought death on himself. Just as God defined it...Body returns to earth and spirit return to God. (See Ecclesiastics 12:7) Nothing more.
When a spirit "dies" it means it is coming into the physical world. And vice versa ....

Life is a circle....not a straight line. Death is just a point on it.

But the message is that Adam will eventually die and not that Adam will start dying.

The death was something that happens at last according to God.

armchairscholar:


---

Your post dives into such a fascinating puzzle in Genesis. The question about whether God’s warning to Adam was a bluff or something deeper really makes you think. I lean toward the idea that “die” in Genesis 2:17 points to more than just dropping dead on the spot. The spiritual death angle—being cut off from God’s presence—makes sense to me because right after eating the fruit, Adam and Eve hide from God (Genesis 3:. That shift in their relationship feels like a kind of death, even if they kept living physically for years.

I get why some see “day” as a literal 24 hours and question God’s truthfulness, but the Bible often uses “day” flexibly, like in 2 Peter 3:8 where a day is like a thousand years to God. Maybe it’s less about God bluffing and more about the consequence starting that day—a process of mortality kicking in. It’s tough to wrestle with, but I think it shows God’s words carry layers of meaning. Thanks for bringing this up—it’s got me pondering how I read these early stories. What do you think “die” meant here?

That’s reasonable but that’s not the tone of the message. The tone of the message was to show that if Adam touched the fruit there will be consequence. It’s a show of power not just an instruction.

Because if Adam touched the fruit, he’ll become like God and may want to get too cocky but God was reassuring him before hand that that would end in tears for him (not literally btw).

Also, if the death was just what Adam did and it’s something Adam would cause by himself, that would me Adam could have reversed his actions and not die anymore. But the death is not in the power of Adam.

There’s no where in the Bible where God is called life. Only Christ was called life and that’s because he carried the living word of God in his heart and became life for.

God is not life, his word is life. If someone separate himself from the word through rejection and offense, they’ll die physically and God will destroy them in the end along with Adam.

Thankgod89:


The issue here is that spiritual death isn’t about God punishing Adam in reaction to his offense, but rather about Adam willfully separating himself from the source of life—God. Since God is life, choosing separation from Him inevitably results in death. So, I’m not saying that God reacted to Adam’s actions either immediately or later.

Genesis 3:3 – “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”

The first death is caused by man himself, that is not God.

Even the food you eat contribute to your first death. However, the second death is something that only God will cause. That is the death God knows. That's why Jesus says "fear him who will cast both body and soul in fire."

StillDtruth:
Madness don dey worry you?
Devil don open another thread again for this matter.

I go still spoil am

Devil, so it is people that added
Psalm 90:42 and Peter 3:8, Abi?

As I said you just want us to know that you have signed up for hellfire

oridavid:
...Recall that Adam did not exist until God created him from the ground. To "return to where he was taken from" means to return to nonexistence—by the same ground from which he was made to exist.

Therefore, the death mentioned in the text refers to the second death. Until a man dies the second death, he is not truly dead before God. God was simply telling Adam that he would experience the second death if he ate from the tree.

Now you have done ojoro and shifted post to death which is not your topic.

And Second death means that there was a first death.

Meanwhile, Adam had never died before, so you are talking rubbish.

oridavid:
On Which Day Will He Die?
Adam was in the presence of God (in the garden) when he received the command and when he disobeyed it. After his disobedience, Adam was cast out of the garden—away from the presence of God. Since Adam no longer experienced the "day of the Lord," he could not have died on a day he could not partake in.

Therefore, the "day" in the presence of God must return to earth for Adam to die on that day. This refers to the day when Christ will return in the power of God, and Adam will be subjected to death for introducing sin into the world.

After Adam were Cain and Abel not still in the presence of The Lord even after no man was in the garden of Eden?

See, you are talking rubbish all because you want to deceive people to you to die just as Satan did to female Adam

You're the one saying the day is 1000 days in presence of God

StillDtruth:


Think well.

There was no death so do you know how many Days must have ed before that Day of Death?

And now you are shifting post to "presence of death" which is not the topic.

So, your part 1 is already toast so no need for part 2.

Like I said in the write up, nothing in the verse indicates that. Nothing in the idea of spiritual death in Ephesians tells you that this will happen on a day, but the final death is known to happen on the day of God. So i don't think it was anything like spiritual.

Also, let's not make it like God reacted immediately Adam sinned. God does not reach immediately.

Thankgod89:


Adam experienced spiritual death immediately upon eating the fruit. Meaning he was separated from God, lost his state of innocence, and became aware of sin. The notion of spiritual death is ed by ages like Ephesians 2:1, which describe humanity as "dead in treses and sins" before being made alive in Christ.

That’s also a good thinking.

However, we must be flexible enough to see that everything in the Bible is not just for Israel. They’re for a kind of people. Israel represented an example of that kind of people so everything pointed to Israel as an example until we actually see those people.

When Christ came, he established that kingdom and became the first of that kind of people which the Bible was actually talking about when it points to Israel as an example.

This is why the Bible says he is the first of every creation—Colossians 1:15.

Was Christ the first person ever born in Israel? No, but he was the first person to exist among that people that the Bible actually points to. This is why someone even called him “last Adam” in the Bible because the story in the Bible is actually about him being the first man God creates and blessed him with all authority to rule the fishes and every creature and gave him power to subdue the earth and fill it up with the fragrance of God.

MrPresident1:
Everything in the Bible is directly or indirectly about Israel.

This is a beautiful perspective. Never saw it like this.

I think we should not sound too theological that we throw facts away. All the event of Genesis 2-3 are not about Israel even though you can see allegories in it. So let’s not outrightly say the story is about Israel. However, can say the story also represent Israel.

MrPresident1:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The story of Adam and Eve is an allegorical representation of the travails of Israel.

Adam is the house of David, Eve is the people, both of them are the whole house of Israel.

The garden of Eden is the land God gave to the Israelites after they left Egypt

The Serpent is a people who were very cunning and deceitful

The forbidden fruit is the idolatry of this nation that was the previous dwellers of the land before God gave it to Israel

God told Israel that they should have nothing to do with the fruit of the forbidden tree, but they did not obey. The trees are people, and their fruits is the works of their hand

Israel lost the presence of God due to transgression, and the Deuteronomy 28 curses was activated upon them

It was Israel's commingling with the people they were commanded to destroy that destroyed them too

Exodus 34:11-17
King James Version
11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

NNtv:


Why did Jesus need to come again before Adam dies when the Bible refer Jesus as the second Adam?

Should'nt casting of Adam out of the garden fulfilment of the "Death"

Good point, very thoughtful of you.

So let’s look at that. Jesus did not come for Adam. God had already told Adam that he’ll die. The death God was talking about is that death that Jesus called the second death. People didn’t know of it, that’s why Jesus revealed it.

So that death will happen when Christ returns and to open the lake of fire. That’s when Adam will surely die as God had said.

Continuation of Part 1
While there are no indications in the texts showing what God meant by “day” or “death,” we have tried to add nuances to the texts to make sense of the whole situation in a way that does not portray God as a bluffer.

Some say the "day" is 1,000 years, while others say it’s a 24-hour day. Some say the "death" was spiritual, while others believe it was a natural death. Some interpret the death as separation from God. However, it is worth noting that none of these nuances can be clearly seen in the text. They are often added by individuals, as the text neither implies nor infers any of these meanings.

How Do We Know What God Meant?
We simply have to continue reading to understand the statement. We must read toward the actual fall to grasp what God meant.

What Did God Say After Adam Ate the Fruit?
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. — Genesis 3:19
God told Adam that he would return to where he came from.

Recall that Adam did not exist until God created him from the ground. To "return to where he was taken from" means to return to nonexistence—by the same ground from which he was made to exist.

Therefore, the death mentioned in the text refers to the second death. Until a man dies the second death, he is not truly dead before God. God was simply telling Adam that he would experience the second death if he ate from the tree.

On Which Day Will He Die?
Adam was in the presence of God (in the garden) when he received the command and when he disobeyed it. After his disobedience, Adam was cast out of the garden—away from the presence of God. Since Adam no longer experienced the "day of the Lord," he could not have died on a day he could not partake in.

Therefore, the "day" in the presence of God must return to earth for Adam to die on that day. This refers to the day when Christ will return in the power of God, and Adam will be subjected to death for introducing sin into the world.

Conclusion
The "death" is the second death, which all sinners must undergo, while the "day" which Adam will die is the day of the Lord.
Thank you for reading.

Continuation of Part 1
While there are no indications in the texts showing what God meant by “day” or “death,” we have tried to add nuances to the texts to make sense of the whole situation in a way that does not portray God as a bluffer.

Some say the "day" is 1,000 years, while others say it’s a 24-hour day. Some say the "death" was spiritual, while others believe it was a natural death. Some interpret the death as separation from God. However, it is worth noting that none of these nuances can be clearly seen in the text. They are often added by individuals, as the text neither implies nor infers any of these meanings.

How Do We Know What God Meant?
We simply have to continue reading to understand the statement. We must read toward the actual fall to grasp what God meant.

What Did God Say After Adam Ate the Fruit?
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. — Genesis 3:19
God told Adam that he would return to where he came from.

Recall that Adam did not exist until God created him from the ground. To "return to where he was taken from" means to return to nonexistence—by the same ground from which he was made to exist.

Therefore, the death mentioned in the text refers to the second death. Until a man dies the second death, he is not truly dead before God. God was simply telling Adam that he would experience the second death if he ate from the tree.

On Which Day Will He Die?
Adam was in the presence of God (in the garden) when he received the command and when he disobeyed it. After his disobedience, Adam was cast out of the garden—away from the presence of God. Since Adam no longer experienced the "day of the Lord," he could not have died on a day he could not partake in.

Therefore, the "day" in the presence of God must return to earth for Adam to die on that day. This refers to the day when Christ will return in the power of God, and Adam will be subjected to death for introducing sin into the world.

Conclusion
The "death" is the second death, which all sinners must undergo, while the "day" which Adam will die is the day of the Lord.
Thank you for reading.

StillDtruth:
Devil, just say that you want to your name as an inmate of hellfire.

But for any innocent person I ask what did the bible say is a day in God's Eyes?

And flowing from the the answer in question 1, how long did Adam live?

Was it up to a day?

That’s the easy pick that Satan wants you to believe was what God was saying. Kindly look out for the part 2 of this write up.

If God was talking about a day in his presence then God must have mentioned then the death will be in God’s present too.

MaxInDHouse:

A day in God's timing is 1,000 years {2Peter 3:8} unlike humans that a day is 24 hours so Adam died in less than one day from God's standpoint:

He lived 930 years {Genesis 5:5} and no human lived up to one day since then!

Well, there was no indication of such telling if it’s a day in God’s presence or a day in adam’s presence. So you’ll be assuming to keep your beliefs. There’s no where else that corroborates that the day God was talking about is 1000years.

Gabrielshow24:

You are confused.
Something died that day but it wasn't Adam.

God killed an animal and from the animals hide made "clothes" for them!!!

A pre-cursor signal as to what will be later on!!!

Everything you’ve mentioned are things we add from our own experiences and beliefs to the text. They’re not there and that’s why you can’t let the scriptures interpret themselves in this case.

“You shall surely die in the day that you eat thereof.”

It is quite surprising that Adam did not die after eating from the tree, as God had informed him, which makes us question whether "the day" referred to something else, or if God was just bluffing.

Many scholars have attempted to overcome this intellectual hurdle by offering various interpretations of the word "day" in this context, aiming to prevent God's words from being seen as a mere bluff. Others, however, argue that there are no indications that "the day" meant anything other than a typical 24-hour day. These individuals further conclude that God was simply trying to prevent man from eating the fruit by issuing a vain threat.

The commandment reads as follows: “Of every tree of the garden, thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.”

Bone of contention: “For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.”

Some argue that God’s threat did not come to , as Adam was recorded to have lived for hundreds of years after eating from the tree. Others propose that Adam died spiritually, introducing the concepts of spiritual and physical death.

However, these new concepts fail to convince many, as they appear to have been inserted into the Bible by those who are reluctant to believe that God’s threat was simply a bluff. The idea of spiritual death, though not originally implied, is being used to ensure that God is continuously seen as truthful.