NewStats: 3,259,308 , 8,169,783 topics. Date: Saturday, 24 May 2025 at 04:59 PM 4d6pw

RaySimran:


Like NPR like ABC NEWS, they thrive on propaganda

Read THE GUARDIAN and BBC, there you'll get the true version of the story

So BBC is no longer propaganda.
U guys are shameless.

I Donald trump in some circumstances like bringing manufacturing back to USA- so long as he's pragmatic about it.
But this ass licking is disgusting.

noobaland30:
come to islam my christian brothers and sisters. its the truth . once you learn the truth about jesus theres no turning back

jesus is muslim by culture and religion he was from palestine from the childeren of yakup (jacob) pbuh. GOD BLESS.

Someone who calls God his Father cannot be a Muslim.

See as original Muslims keep their culture.

Yet some lost Muslims amongst Yoruba are saying men should no longer prostate because it's unislamic.

U see Una lives for outside.

Dey sha wan run this guy commot street.

But what's so special about that Burkina Faso country that gathering this much attraction from the outside world.

Do they have any unique natural resources the rest of us don't have?

Mightymanna:
islam is a complete way of life, it ia not like your lip service faith

Islam can never be up to 1 percent of what Christianity is all about.
A faithless religion filled with legalism. Jesus had a phrase for U giys- whitewash sepulchre.

Imagine a Muslim asking why Abraham was willing to sacrifice Isaac when commanded by God him to do so if truly Isaac was the promise child and not Ismael.

His argument was that Abraham would never have entertained the idea of killing Isaac if he was indeed the covenant child.

Faithless people that think they can impress God by mere works.

casualobserver:


The kind of people who think the is China tarrif war is about manufacturing are the same set of ignorant uninformed people who thought killing Ghaddafi was about terrorism.

Simpletons never really understand what’s going on. It’s above their IQ.

No wonder your initial response was blocked.
When a fool is deprived of any intellectual response, they resort to insults.
It shows your family upbringing.

Imagine comparing political motivated murder to economic war based on survival of a nation.
To obtuse ignoramus like this one, everything is about west v east.
He will soon come and tell us India v Pakistan war is a reflection of such geopolitical hegemony.

As an economic power, it's either U manufacturer or U perish.

Don't ever quote me again or I will block U. I expect the feeling to be mutual.

This is not news, even russian military stated then whatever happend was a mistake.
The issue is will Russia take responsibility and pay compensation. I don't think so

Civilian airlines should learn to avoid troubled zone and stop putting innocent lives in danger.

casualobserver:


1: Manufacturing isn’t going back to the west. Trump knows it but is only playing to the gallery. Trumps war with China is not about manufacturing. It’s about the long term viability of the dollar.

2: Robots don’t pay taxes. When was the last time you saw a tech company from Europe?

UK is now dependent on US for tech, China for manufacturing and Africa for Labour. Not just bottom cleaners but skilled Labour like doctors and engineers.

I am not a fan of migration. I have said it that the immigrants ultimately cause resentment and destroy the society of their hosts but sometimes that is the price for survival.

The idea that manufacturing can't return to the west is just lazy thinking.
Western powers allowed manufacturing to move east because it's cheaper for the companies. Simple.
The investors are happy because the ROI is crazy. The day that becomes impossible is the day they lose interest in the east. If BYD replace Tesla and Huawei replace apple, there will be no gain manufacturing in the east anymore.
The market is still in the west, that's what U don't understand.
Manufacturing can be rejigged to ensure some value chain returns to the west. Already Trump tarrif has forced some auto makers to announce they would move their factories to the USA.
If china now has 100% robotic manufacturing in some factories- no humans working there, all robots; how come such cannot be replicated in the west where it's desperately needed.
The concentration of manufacturing in china is simply because it's very convenient and the western investors allowed it.

If U think all those low paying job are paying any reasonable taxes, then I have heaven to sell to U.
It's better they are simply replaced with technology and then tax the tech companies.
I don't get your point about European tech companies, any company doing business in any country should pay tax- foreign or not.

UK politicians destroyed that country with their immigration- obsessed policy.
and UK brought in loads of immigrants thinking that would help curb inflation- they were wrong.
The depressed wages that came as a result of above discouraged natives to work. because they realised it's much better to be on welfare than work a care job that brings home next to nothing.

casualobserver:


Europe cannot afford a slow down in immigration no matter the noise they make to their domestic audience. They are being squeezed by the US and China. their industries are dying and they have no competitive future proof industries left. Tech is dominated by the US and manufacturing is dominated by China. Their populations are aging and they have a high social security and welfare bill. Where are the workers to pay for it....immmigrants! A citizen would rather be on welfare than work for the minimum wage that most immigrants work for and he would be better off. Even their schools they cant fund without foreign fees!

Europe including the UK is dying!


its a case of leaders understanding the issues better than the emotional masses ( this applies to most countries) but playing to the gallery!

the Uk are the original masters of deception. They will make all the right noises, close one door and open another while you arent watching. when the people wanted Brexit because there were too many Polish immigrants, they quitely opened the door to JAPA Nigerians and other Africans. when Nigerians start getting on the nerves of the locals (they eventually will) they will close the door to Nigerians they will quietly open the door to another group of people!

The truth is immigration is just a lazy political approach to solve a problem that's better handled by technology.
Europe aging workforce can be solved with technology. Europe doesn't need all these low wage immigrant workers to fill an unnecessary void that can be easily replaced with technology.
With Trump breathing down the necks of American industrial powers, it's only a matter of time robotic manufacturing replaces human in factories and warehouse all in a bid to bring manufacturing back to the west.
advanced drones will replace delivery couriers, autonomous driverless cars will replace commercial drivers, most govt services will be done by A.I. customer services will soon be purely an artificial intelligence affair.
technology carers may be more challenging but eventually it will be a matter of choice btw robot carers or human carers.
Even jobs like medicine, software engineering and ing are not safe.

massive immigration causes more problem than they solve, if at all they solve anything.
Look at Europe, its no longer an attractive place to live anymore. Even white Europeans are fleeing Europe for gulf countries, over 250k white British now live in dubai alone. Go to tiktok and see how they are praising their new homes and rubbishing Europe- white people o.

its not worth it. It's just that politicians every where in the world are lazy thinkers, they rarely think beyond their next term limit- short term.

nairalanda1:
Indeed, searching for a hero.

I won't say more. Apparently in the eyes of some people, heroes are too important

Will he become hero if he begins to tax his people to death.
Increase school fees, charge arm and leg for hospital fees, tax Burkina Faso two months salary for electricity and fuel.

Your hero here in naija has tried your theory by removing subsidy and taxing the whole country to death. Yet the poverty in nigeria has quadrupled with no visible end in sight.

You should be the last person to tell us who's a hero.

It's so obvious some African leader are afraid of this guy and are willing tools in the hands of western collaborators to get him out.

U people say all he's doing is propaganda, then allow him be. If he's fake, it's only a matter of time, his true colour will show.

Allow this Traore guy to bubble or burst based on his own doing.

All these attack on him won't help. It will only make him more popular on the continent allowing to build a cult like heroic figure round himself.

For example, I heard USA recently sanction Burkina Faso, why?
This will only add more fuel to fire that the west hates him and wants his downfall.

People don't learn. Especially the west.

This is what nailed him.....

Prosecuting, Lyndon Harris told the court: “There is one discussion where Ojiri is party to a conversation where it is apparent a lot of people have known for years about [Ahmad's] terrorism links.”

He can't claim 'I don't know he was a terrorist'.

Why are these people so disturbed about this Ibrahim Troare guy.
So who doesn't do propaganda.
Let him be, his people will decide if they want him or not.
Tinubu that's using propaganda to kill Nigerians why is nobody calling him out.
But Troare is their headache in aso rock.

Btw, kicking out out of Burkina faso country is not propaganda. It's real, he actually kicked out .

Let African countries learn to grow, if they make mistake they will learn.

kokomilala:
My Disquiet About Burkina Faso

Hitler once said that with persistent propaganda, one could present hell as heaven and the most wretched life as paradise to a people.

Traore has succeeded in using this tool of the state to court sympathies of the weak and narrow-minded. Yes , he's pretended to astute leadership, with revolutionary veneer, but it doesn't remove the blight that he's a dictator like Paul Kegame of Rwanda- they are both in bed.

I do not see Traore morphing into that messiah that Africa needs. He has to deal with his domestic issues, which are masked away from the rest of the world. He also needs to curtail his excessses. This is what khaki boys or political bandits cannot do, for they are power-driven.

If he's serious about his revolutionary ideas, he must first set in motion a timeline for transition to civil rule, where the rule of law, not the rule of the gun prevails.

Africans never presented Troare as a messiah.. They are just happy he kicked out the French imperialism n for the first a Burkina Faso leader will actually rule the country n not .

Allow him to rule as he deem fit, he cannot be worse than previous leaders or other democratically elected African leaders.

All these western inspired propaganda against him won't help in anyway instead will actually turn him into a hero because people hate anything western propaganda nowadays.

Besides recent events globally has shown democracy is not a prerequisite for economic development. The best performing economies right now are counties like China, UAE and Qatar. They are not democracy, yet Dubai alone has over 500 thousand western migrants living there due to its abundant economic opportunities.

success1smyn:


You don't have nobody in that country, this will be the first time I will be commenting on this Burkina Faso issue, the truth that Traore is only living on propaganda and that's all. If you truly have people there, what they will only tell you is that the country is yet to see any improvement.

And for you first hand info, I have a good number of people there and the report I get from them is that thing are yet to improve. Most of them have hope though

Wode Maya visited Burkina Faso and the report was very positive. Citizens were very happy to have Troare as their President.
The west should leave Burkina Faso alone.

DrRasheed:


The Quranic qira’at, or canonical readings, are another point of confusion. These are not textual variants in the same way as Biblical divergences. All qira’at are based on the same consonantal skeleton (rasm) and are transmitted with rigorous chains (isnad). They were codified by the 10th century, but the readings themselves trace back to companions of the Prophet and were orally transmitted and widely accepted within scholarly communities. Importantly, no qira’a introduces or omits verses, nor do they affect theology.

Well we really need to dissect Ibn Masud and Ibn Ubay's Quranic version before we can come to this big conclusion.

DrRasheed:

In contrast, the Bible contains hundreds of textual differences that do alter doctrine or narrative detail. For example, the resurrection appearances in Mark 16:9–20 are absent from the earliest manuscripts, yet they have been used to affirm the resurrection as historical fact.

We already debunked this Mark 16:9-20 myth, stop repeating what so cannot substantiate. Mark 16 longer version is as old as any NT manuscript.
Besides, the resurrection story didn't start with Mark 16, there were prior New Testament texts written by eye witness that confirmed the resurrection of Jesus Christ before the gospel of Mark was written.

One was Peter, apostle of our Lord,
1 Peter 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

DrRasheed:

and Some modern Bibles now include footnotes or brackets around these verses, but for centuries, these additions were read as authentic scripture. The same applies to the Johannine Comma and the adulteress story.

The idea that oral tradition validates such ages is not sustainable. No early church father before the 4th century mentions the pericope adulterae. It is absent in P66 and P75 (both dated c. 200 CE), Codex Vaticanus, and Codex Sinaiticus. When it finally appears, it does so in different places—sometimes in Luke—which shows it was floating and unanchored. That is the opposite of what would be expected from a divinely preserved text.

Take am easy with confabulation. It's the internet age, bogus claims can easily be debunked.
Church Fathers confirmed the pericope adulterae is part of the Oral gospel.

Papias (c. 60 – c. 130) knew of the story when he referenced a woman “who was accused of many sins before the Lord,” though he said it was found in the Gospel according to the Hebrews.
“And he relates another story of a woman, who was accused of many sins before the Lord, which is contained in the Gospel according to the Hebrews” (Eusebius, Church History, Book 3, Chapter 39).

The Didascalia Apostolorum, an early third-century book of church discipline like the Didache, makes reference to this age:

“But if you do not receive the one who repents, because you are without mercy, you shall sin against the Lord God. For you do not obey our Saviour and our God, to do as even He did with her who had sinned, whom the elders placed before Him, leaving the judgment in His hands, and departed. But he, the searcher of hearts, asked her and said to her: ‘Have the elders condemned you, my daughter?’ She says to him: ‘No, Lord.’ And he said to her: ‘Go, neither do Ι condemn you’” (8.2.24).

Didymus the Blind, who lived in the early fourth century, summarizes the age in one of his works:

“So we have in certain gospels: Α woman, it says, was condemned by the Jews on of a sin and was being sent to be stoned to the place where that customarily happened. The savior, it says, seeing her, and perceiving that they were ready to stone her, said to those who were going to assault her with stones, ‘Whoever has not sinned, let him take up a stone and throw it. If anyone is aware in himself that he has not sinned, let him take up a stone and smite her.’ And no one dared. Since they understood themselves, and knew that they were themselves liable in certain matters, they did not dare to strike her down” (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 223.7-13).

Callistus, who was Bishop of Rome from 217-222 AD, quotes from the age in his second epistle to all the bishops of Gaul. And Leo the Great references the story in Sermon 62 on the suffering of Christ.

DrRasheed:

The notion that early Christians were "intellectually honest" because they didn’t destroy manuscripts doesn’t excuse the instability. Honesty in acknowledging variants does not resolve the chaos caused by centuries of uncontrolled copying, nor does it erase the doctrinal confusion resulting from it.

To be honest, I agree Muslims did a better job preserving their texts than Christians. Yes, I agree.
But maybe if the Pope had called for holy crusade to ensure biblical uniformity crusade, I'm very sure we Christians would have had a preserved text today.
I have no doubt of the power of the pope to deal with monks and scribes harboring unofficial versions of the bible.
If the Pope could convince people to burn their women for witchcraft for over 300 years or successfully threaten people to believe the earth is flat for over a thousand years, I don't see how destroying contrary versions of the bible would be a problem.
Abi is that now Uthman came to produce only one Quran.

DrRasheed:

Islamic tradition acted decisively and within one generation to standardize and protect the Quranic text. The Bible, in contrast, was left to evolve regionally, leading to conflicting texts, theological insertions, and delayed recognition of errors. This is why modern biblical scholars—whether Christian or secular—do not claim the Bible has been perfectly preserved. Even the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, the standard academic edition, uses a critical apparatus to document thousands of variations.

I'm very sure u muslims don't think these argument of bible is corrupt through.
because if u do, no muslim will ever utter the phrase ''bible is corrupt'

Let me challenge your thinking faculty tonight

1. Tell me, what version of the Torah were people using during the time of Jesus. When Jesus was quoting from the Torah, what version of Torah was he referencing?

2. When Allah was helping Waraqah ibn Nawfa to translate the injil to arabic. What version of the gospel was Waraqah using for his translation.

DrRasheed:

Again, the Quran has a consistent, traceable textual history, with preservation mechanisms built into both oral and written traditions. The Bible, by contrast, suffers from extensive textual instability, late additions, and no continuous manuscript chain to the original texts. These are not simply "textual variants" but represent deep-rooted problems.

The day you find a New Testament manuscript that says Jesus is not the Son of God or Jesus wasn't crucified or Jesus didn't come to die for the sin of mankind, then u can have a leg to stand on.
Or if we discover an ancient NT manuscript that has those verses omitted from its pages, then we can talk.

The oldest gospel manuscript we have- P52 gospel of John dated 120 AD is the page that talks about the trial of JESUS CHRIST.

Hiding behind variants that are mainly scribal grammatic errors or spelling mistake wont safe u.

DrRasheed:

In all of this, it is important to clarify that we Muslims do accept the Bible—but not the Bible as it exists today. We believe that Allah revealed divine scriptures such as the Torah to Musa (Moses), the Zabur to Dawud (David), and the Injil to Isa (Jesus), peace be upon them all. However, the current Bible is not a single revealed book; it is a collection of writings composed over centuries by different authors—some of whom were kings, fishermen, priests, religious leaders, anonymous writers, and even councils of men who decided which texts to include or exclude.

Some were sincere believers, others were scribes, and in many cases, the exact identity of the authors is unknown. What we now have is a text shaped by translation, redaction, and political decisions—not the unaltered word of God.

We do not deny that divine guidance was once sent to previous nations. On the contrary, belief in those original revelations is a pillar of Islamic faith. But what remains of those scriptures today does not represent their pure, original forms. Only the Qur’an, revealed to the final Messenger Muhammad (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam), has been preserved without alteration.

It came not through anonymous hands or political councils, but directly from Allah through the angel Jibril, memorized by the Prophet’s companions, and transmitted with an unbroken chain both orally and in writing. Allah Himself promised its protection: “Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an, and indeed, We will be its guardian” (Surah Al-Hijr 15:9).

Therefore, while we respect the prophets and the scriptures they were given, we do not rely on the Bible of today as a source of divine law or belief. Only the Qur’an remains as the final, complete, and uncorrupted guidance for all of humanity, until the end of time.

Quran as a divine text is another topic for another day. I don't even believe Muhammed wrote the Quran anyway.

DrRasheed:


The long ending of Mark (Mark 16:9–20), for instance, is absent in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts like Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.

Despite the fact I corrected this false statement in my earlier post, u still brought it up. Anyway I will produce evidence to show u longer ending of Mark 16 existed even before codex sinaticus or vaticanus were written.

[i]Because of patristic evidence from the late 100s for the existence of copies of Mark with 16:9–20, scholars widely date the composition of the longer ending to the early 2nd century.
May, Herbert G. and Bruce M. Metzger. The New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha. 1977.[/i]

The earliest clear evidence for Mark 16:9-20 as part of the Gospel of Mark is in Chapter XLV First Apology of Justin Martyr (155–157). In a age in which Justin treats Psalm 110 as a Messianic prophecy, he states that Psalm 110:2 was fulfilled when Jesus' disciples, going forth from Jerusalem, preached everywhere. His wording is remarkably similar to the wording of Mk. 16:20 and is consistent with Justin's use of a Synoptics-Harmony in which Mark 16:20 was blended with Lk. 24:53.

The Epistula Apostolorum (mid-late 2nd c.) likely incorporates all four Gospels, including the longer ending of Mark in sections 9-10, per the strong thematic, literary, and narrative sequence resemblance between the texts[59]

Justin's student Tatian incorporated almost all of Mark 16:9-20 into his Diatessaron (160–175), a blended narrative consisting of material from all four canonical Gospels.
Lunn, Nicholas. The Original Ending of Mark. Pickwick Publications, 2014, 74-75.

Besides, the Latin Vulgate written in 380 AD close to the time of Codes Synaticus and vaticanus has the longer ending of Mark chapter 16. So the idea that longer ending of chapter 16 is a later interpolation makes no sense.

DrRasheed:

The pericope adulterae (John 7:53–8:11) is similarly absent in all early manuscripts before the 5th century and appears in varying locations, indicating it was a later insertion.

The Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7), which reads "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one," does not appear in any Greek manuscript before the 14th century and only entered the Latin Vulgate in the 6th century. This fabricated verse then shaped Trinitarian theology in Europe for centuries despite having no basis in early manuscripts.

Once again, stop looking at the bible with a eurocentric lens, whatever Europe did with their bible version should not rub on others. We know how western Christians justified transatlantic slave trade with the use of the bible for over 300 years. As I already said, the western europe bible version of Latin and byzantine texts may have been corrupted BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE BIBLE IS CORRUPTED.
EVERYBODY SHOULD CARRY THEIR OWN SIN- that's what u guys preach in your religion. Let's it application be uniform.

DrRasheed:

Regarding non-European Biblical traditions, such as the Coptic, Syriac (Peshitta), and Ge'ez texts, it is true that they preserve certain readings not found in Western manuscripts. However, they also contain their own variants and were all translated from Greek originals that were themselves in flux. No ancient Christian tradition—Eastern or Western—possesses a manuscript lineage that traces directly and unaltered to the original writings of the apostles.

Unfortunately u are not a bible scholar so your big words mean nothing. Let's ask what the scholars have to say about preservation of the non- european bible texts.

[i]Over the centuries, the Peshitta textual integrity has been preserved through critical scholarship, manuscript discoveries, and modern translations.
Critical Editions of the Peshitta New Testament

Bruce M. Metzger, a renowned textual critic, describes the Peshitta as:
"Careful, faithful, and literal," sometimes referred to as the "Queen of the versions."
— The Early Versions of the New Testament: Their Origin, Transmission and Limitations, Oxford University Press, 1977, p. 50.


"If modern scholarship shows that the Peshitta is historically reliable as an ancient version of the New Testament that predates the Greek manuscripts, we would not be able to say that the Greek version is corrupted. What we would be able to say is that the Greek-based translations are so extremely similar to the Aramaic Peshitta... that the two texts are virtually identical."
— Was the Bible Corrupted? Part 2: Peshitta, Historical Bible Society.

DrRasheed:

For example, the oldest Syriac manuscript of the Gospels (Curetonian Gospels) dates to the 5th century, long after the canonical texts were written. These versions reflect theological and textual decisions made long after the original teachings of Jesus.

This is a serious accusation that demands hardcore evidence.
anyway read here about transmission of the syriac text from the 2nd century...https://uasvbible.org/2024/12/30/in-depth-how-have-the-ancient-syriac-versions-preserved-the-new-testament/

DrRasheed:



In contrast, the Bible lacks any centralized, contemporaneous compilation effort. The four canonical Gospels were written between 65 and 100 CE—decades after Jesus—and none of the original autographs exist.

point of correction, the 3 synoptic gospel were written prior to the fall of the Jerusalem in 70 AD. The gospel of Luke was definitely written before 62 AD.

DrRasheed:

The earliest nearly complete New Testament manuscripts, such as Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, date to the 4th century (around 325–360 CE). Between the 2nd and 4th centuries, numerous manuscripts show wide variation. According to Dr. Bart Ehrman, there are over 400,000 textual variants among the existing Greek manuscripts—more variants than there are words in the New Testament. Many of these are minor, but some involve entire ages.

The highlighted is not true.
The widest variation in our manuscripts lies btw extant of 5th to 10th century.
extant manuscripts btw 2nd to 4th are very much preserved with insignificant theological variant if any. There's a reason bible scholars now say the gospel was corrupted in the 1st century AD.
They found out that copy of the gospels dated 2nd to 4th do not have those theological interpolation or corruptions they desperately want to see.

DrRasheed:


You are mistaken qiraats as translations which is very much laughable, but I will excuse you being non Muslim. Let's dissect this together please. Take your time to everything here.

ok as usual for muslims and atheist apologists, their epistles is filled with bunch of opinion laced with conjectures and fabrications without any factual evidence to back any claim made
Now see how I will reply with evidence, I don't make claim without producing evidence. So I expect u to do the same otherwise we can both call it a day.

DrRasheed:

The Quran’s preservation is anchored in both oral and written transmission. During the Prophet Muhammad’s lifetime (570–632 CE), the Quran was memorized in full by companions such as Zayd ibn Thabit and Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, and it was also written down on parchments, bones, and other materials. After the Prophet’s death, the first compilation was initiated by Abu Bakr around 633 CE following the Battle of Yamama.

This project, led by Zayd ibn Thabit, was supervised by senior companions and was later inherited by Caliph Umar and then Hafsa, the Prophet’s widow. Around 650 CE, Uthman standardized the Quran to prevent dialectal disputes and distributed the standardized copies to major cities. This process was not arbitrary—it was done by a committee that included those who had memorized and written the Quran during the Prophet’s lifetime.

As usual you conveniently ignored the biggest elephant in the room when it comes to codification of the Uthman Quran- Ibn Masood, one of your greatest reciters of the Quran rejected it calling the work 'deceit'

Muhammed regarded Ibn Masood one of the greatest reciters ever and advised people to learn Quran from him.

Narrated Masruq: [...] I heard the Prophet saying, "Take (learn) the Qur'an from four (men): `Abdullah bin Masud, Salim, Mu'adh and Ubai bin Ka'b." (Sahih al-Bukhari 4999; vol 6, bk 61, no 521)

Yet the one Your Prophet trusted with the transmission, teaching and preservation of the Quran called the one u are holding a corrupt version. Ibn Mosood compiled his own Quran, it had 111 chapters, the one u have has 114 chapters!!!

Abdullah Ibn Masud said, “I recited from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs which I had perfected before Zaid Ibn Thabit had embraced Islam.” (The Codices of Ibn Mas'ud and Ubayy Ibn Ka'b, – Ibn Abi Dawud’s Kitab al-Masahif, p. 17)

“I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs when Zaid was still a childish youth - must I now forsake what I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah?” (Ibid., p. 15)

When Uthman's agents came to Kufa to burn all the variants, Abd Allah Ibn Masud hid his copy of Quran from them and told his followers to do the same. He justified his own version of the recitation by reminding people: "I recited before Allah's Messenger more than seventy suras of the Qur'an. His Companions know that I have a better understanding of Allah's Book than they do; and if I were to know that someone had a better understanding than I have, I would have gone to him." It was said that nobody could find fault with Abd Allah's version
(Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 6022)

Except u telling me Ibn Masud a great reciter recommended by Muhammed had poor knowledge of qarat or whatever dialectical argument u making, sorry your case is weak.
The Quran wasn't preserved from the original source. QED.

DrRasheed:

The burning of variant texts was not a suppression of theological differences, but a unification of dialectal variations.

Yes it is. Uthman suppressed versions of Quran he didn't like and had them burnt, when he had no authority to do so.

The Prophet Muhammad said: “The Koran was revealed in seven dialects, all of them are right and perfect.” When Uthman banned whichever he banned from the Koran, and burned whichever he burned, he banned ages Allah has revealed and burned parts of the Koran which were given to the Muslims by the Messenger of Allah. He appointed a small group of Sahaba (close friends of Muhammad) to rewrite the Koran and left out those who heard the Prophet and memorized what he said. When Ibn Massoud objected to the burning of the other codices of the Koran, Uthman had him taken out of the mosque with violence, and struck him to the ground, and broke one of his ribs. (Hussein, A-Fitnato Al-Kobra [The Great Sedition], pp. 160-161, 181-182)


It's pertinent to note that it wasn't only Ibn Masud that rejected the Uthman codex. Another great reciter, someone Muhammed called the best of all reciters Ibn Ubay also denounced Uthman codex.

Narrated Ibn Abbas: Umar said, "Ubayy was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave (out) some of what he recites". Ubayy says, "I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Apostle and will not leave for anything whatever". (Sahih al-Bukhari 5005; vol 6, bk 61, no 527)
Ubay actually compiled his own Quran which had 116 chapters-2 more than the Uthman Quran and rejected that compiled by Zaid, he continued using his own Quran for instruction and teaching in Syria where he lived.

Other prominent companions of Muhammed complained important verses and chapters were reportedly declared missing in the Uthman Quranic codex. These were not qarats, but words of Allah removed from the Quran.

According to Ibn Umar and Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, one chapter, Surah al-Ahzab had 200 verses in Muhammad’s time. Yet, once Uthman was finished only 73 verses remained, eliminating nearly 140 verses. This tradition is also confirmed by Ubay b. Kabb. (Al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan fii ulum al-Qur'an on nasikh wa mansukh and Darwaza’s al-Qur'an Al-Majid)

It's so obvious the Uthman codex that Muslims used today is a corrupted work of Uthman and can't be traced to the mouth of their Prophet. The preservation of the modern day Quran terminates with Caliphate Uthman. He knew it and that's why he used heavy suppression and intimidation to ensure its survival.

What Uthman did can be compared to early Christians destroying the Gospel according to Mark, Luke, and John, and just keeping Matthew. This may have made things simpler, but Christianity is richer for having preserved all these different testimonies, and Islam is poorer for having destroyed these other testimonies to the Qur’an. The result is that today we have only one testimony to what Muhammad recited. The testimony of the other collections is almost totally lost.

DrRasheed:

Unlike the Bible, no variant Quranic manuscript has ever been discovered containing extra chapters or contradicting the theological core of the text. Manuscripts like the Sanaa palimpsest (dated between 650–705 CE by radiocarbon testing) match the Uthmanic text with only minor orthographic and non-theological differences.

The sana manuscript did not match your modern Quran in anyway. Just don't say it, bring evidence from non Muslims Quranic scholars
that says Sana manuscript is almost the same as your Quran. If anything, what scholars are saying is that the lower text of the manuscript is very similar to the Ibn Masud codex.

DrRasheed:



You accuse me of dabbling into textual criticism, but that’s precisely where the core issue lies. If we're evaluating whether the Bible has been preserved or altered, then we must look at the actual manuscripts—where we find undeniable inconsistencies, additions, and omissions that go far beyond simple “textual variation.”

You argue that because no single age is altered uniformly across all ancient versions, we can't call the Bible corrupt. But that logic is flawed. Corruption doesn't require universal uniformity.

Then same standard should be applied to the Quran. The perfect preservation of the Quran cannot be traced to the original source- Muhammed, but only to the Uthman caliphate. Prior to that there were different Quranic versions flying around and they don't always agree.

DrRasheed:

A single corrupted tradition—especially if it influences major translations and theology, like the Latin Vulgate or KJV—introduces error into the religious understanding of millions. The Johannine Comma, for instance, may not exist in early Eastern manuscripts, but it did make its way into Western canon and was used for centuries to justify the doctrine of the Trinity. That alone demonstrates how serious the impact of a single textual addition can be.

claiming Johannine comma bears any weight to trinity is laughable. The eastern churches were the vanguard and champions of Trinity, yet their bible versions don't have the Johannine comma. 90% of the bishops who voted for Trinity in the nicene council came from the eastern churches. In fact, there was no Johannine comma in any 4th century bible when the Trinity concept was established. Johannine comma appeared in the Latin biblical versions around the 6th century.

DrRasheed:

You also try to deflect by pointing to the Qur'an and the Sana'a manuscript. However, unlike the Bible, the Qur'an has a clearly documented and centralized process of canonization under Uthman, with variant readings (qira’at) preserved and classified—not hidden or quietly inserted over centuries like many biblical interpolations.

Preservation of the Quran up to Uthman is inconsequential and irrelevant, the Quran didn't originate from Uthman; whatever was achieved during his time means nothing. what matters is preservation of the Quran prior to Uthman. And we know the Quran wasn't preserved perfectly in anyway b4 Uthman codex was standardized.
Ibn masud and Ibn Ubay both had their own codex, where are they? Both disagreed with the Uthman codex and Ibn Masud deemed it a corrupted text. Ironically, these 2 were considered the best of reciters by Muhammed himself yet they rejected the Quran compiled under Uthman authority.
To make matters worse, Uthman ordered all textual variants of the Quran to be burnt except his own. That action alone is very disturbing because he had no authority to do so.

DrRasheed:

The fact that different Bible versions disagree on whether certain ages are scripture (like Mark 16:9–20 or John 7:53–8:11) is not a minor issue—it’s a glaring sign that we are not dealing with a perfectly preserved revelation.

Bible compilation has always been decentralised right from the inception and there was never an attempt centralize its compilation at any point in history. variation will always arise due to human nature. That's a fact.
But the early church fathers were honest and transparent enough to acknowledge these variants even in the 2nd century and they talked about it. What they didn't do is burn or destroy any copy of the bible they didn't agree with. They let them be. That's intellectual honesty.
Imagine if King James had ordered all prior manuscript to be burnt after production of KJV or Father Jerome destroyed all copies of the bible after compiling the Latin vulgate, no one will know of any shorter ending of Mark or 1 John 5.7. Of course, it would have been easy for them to lie that the bible is preserved all the way to the apostles, but that would have been a very disingenuous act....exactly what Uthman did by burning previous Quranic text.

For example both the longer and shorter ending of Mark 16 was well known to early church Fathers in the 2nd century. The oldest copy of Mark 16 Epistula Apostolorum dated 120 AD has the longer ending. Both Justyn Martyr and Irenaeus quoted from the longer ending of Mark 16 in 150 and 180 AD respectivley.
Eusebius of Caesarea itted both versions of Mark 16 were read in early churches , and advised the congregation to use the shorter version for preaching, he never told them to destroy the longer version.

DrRasheed:

So no, this isn’t just “textual variation.” It is textual instability that undermines the claim of divine preservation. If God's word was meant to guide all people, shouldn’t it have been protected from such confusion?

U are simply a victim of eurocentric world without even knowing.
Now some Christian sect in other regions of the world preserved their text and avoided interpolation, but u are telling me their own version of the bible is corrupt because the European churches allowed interpolation into their own version of the bible!!!!
Mr Man, the bible wasn't compiled by europeans neither do they have monopoly over it. WHAT YOU SHOULD SAY IS THE EUROPEAN VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE SOURCED FROM LATIN AND BYZANTINE TEXTS ARE FLAWED OR IS CORRUPT- ANYTHING BEYOND THAT IS A BIZZARE STATEMENT LACKING IN ANY FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

EVEN BIBLE SCHOLARS IT THE COPTIC, PESHITTA AND GE'EZ ARE WELL PRESERVED BIBLE VERSIONS.

When bible scholars in the 16-18th century in Europe decided to use ancient manuscript for translation, they noticed the discrepancy in the contemporary Latin and Byzantine biblical texts sourced from the LV and ancient greek texts; without any regard for bible versions in other regions, these european scholars came to the conclusion the bible is corrupt.
However by the 20th century, when thousands of non european bible manuscripts were discovered, it was obvious these interpolations wasn't uniform and the appropriate terminology is textual variance NOT corruption.

Finally I noticed u mentioned adulteress pericope as a corruption. No it's not. The age in John 7-8 is part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Early church fathers confirmed the adulteress pericope was part of the oral gospel and a historical tradition taught and ed down by the apostles to the church.
so kindly remove it as a corruption, its not.

Antichristian2:
Which verse of Matthew or Acts mentions the authorities?

(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Acts 1:18 Judas or the authorities?



But i read somewhere that the landed area is now a church now!

Mathew 27.
5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.” 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter’s field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day.

I'm referring to ancient Jewish custom not modern ones.

DrRasheed:


Early versions of the Bible, including the Greek manuscripts, the Latin Vulgate, the Syriac Peshitta, the Coptic Bible, the Armenian Bible, and the Gothic Bible, do not align perfectly. In fact, some verses appear in certain versions but are entirely absent in others, while many others are worded differently or contain additions and omissions that affect their meaning. For instance, the long ending of Mark (Mark 16:9–20) and the story of the adulterous woman (John 7:53–8:11) are among the most notable examples of such textual discrepancies. These variations indicate not just simple copying mistakes but point to a deeper issue of alteration over time.

U did not answer my question. Instead U dabbled into textual criticism and I'm not sure how knowledgeable U are in that regards.

If there's no uniform alteration of a age in all our ancient bible versions, then U can't say the bible is corrupt.
It only means there's textual variation in our ancient extant manuscripts. Which means some bible versions still held onto the preserved transmission of prior scriptures.

For example the Johannine comma 1 John 5.7 is not seen in any coptic, Syriac, Ge'ez, Armenian, Georgian bible- ancient or modern. It's not seen in the Ethiopian Garima gospel as well.
Thus, claiming the bible is corrupt because of presence of Johannine comma makes no sense because majority of our independent ancient bible versions don't have it.
Rather it's a textual variance seen in Latin Vulgate and subsequent translations that used LV as their source.

Textual variant is not a problem of the bible alone. Quran also has same issue. The discovery of Sana manuscript found in Yemen, the codex of Ibn Masud shows there were definitely textual variance in ancient Quranic versions and these versions don't always agree.

I was initially against this Troare guy because I felt he was doing too much showmanship on social media and pushing propaganda.

But recent narratives shows he's working. He has set up processing plants for cashew, cotton and gold. He announced they will no longer be exported raw.

That's what Africa needs, a thinking leader. A leader that knows how to develop the land and exploit the economic opportunities to improve the standard of living of his people.

Burkina Faso is by all indices a poor country so eradicating poverty is not going to be a magic wand.
But what we want to see is a leader doing something about it.

And western nations should learn to mind their business. They have created enough chaos in the world to last a century, they should give it a rest.

Besides they now have too many embarrassing problems in their home country to keep their govt very busy.
Homelessness, stagnant wages, rising cost of living, dilapidated infrastructure, poor social mobility, rising poverty among the working class, safety issue, high level of depression and hopelessness.
Any country that has these number of problems shouldn't be telling other countries how to run their nation

TimeManager:
Every indices are getting worse both human development index, security index and human right index. It's all about media window dressing for him just like a certain candidate in Nigeria who loves moving around with cameras.


-Kiss the truth!

U should be ashamed of yourself.
The best performing economy nations right now are not democratic nations
UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, China.

Travel to Dubai and see the mounting number of westerners making it home working common jobs like teachers and customer care.
There are over 250 thousand British living in Dubai as at this year.
Yet Dubai is non democratic.

Democracy had his day but what people need now is economic opportunities. If it's a authoritarian that can deliver, then let him be.

I was thinking U will highlight his economic failure only for U to dabble into anti democratic tendency

Who democracy help. We have seen democracy govt all over the world and we now know it's not a panacea to development.

Antichristian2:


Was it same Judas that threw the 💰 on the ground and went to hang himself picked the money again to buy the land?

The authorities bought the field with Judas' money. It was blood money and couldn't put the money in the treasury.
They used the money to buy the land where Judas hanged himself.

Death by suicide hanging is abominable in Jewish custom, it was going to be difficult to sell the land to someone.
The practical thing was to buy it and use it as a graveyard for strangers and foreigners.

Dogalmighty17:
You'd need to know that none of the gospels were actually written by the apostles they were named after. And the earliest of them was written 70 years after the death of Jesus. It is hard ing in detail incidents that happened decades ago. Even more so when the author didn't witness it but is writing based on narratives that were ed down.

The Bible is filled with such contradictions.

If I ask U to produce evidence for your bogus claim now, wahala go start.
U will begin to write long essay devoid of any evidence.
Na the issue I'm facing with one of U here called Lucyfre.

I wrote earlier that Kemi is fighting too many battles at once, unfortunately she didnt't listen. she was determined to be the next Margaret Tatcher of uk.
The truth is Kemi just doesnt have it in her as a leader. she lacked the charisma and focus. maybe she's better off as a technocrat or something.
Too much unnecessary energy dissipation, fought imaginary enemies and didn't get it right being an ethnic minority in that position.
I think being married to a white man got too much into her head and was carried away thinking she's somehow white.

There are things Donald Trump as a white man can say and get away it, Barack Obama dare not utter it, he will be impeached the next day.
Another person that will bite the dust if he continues with his delusion is Vivek Ramaswamy- america no dey too waste time reminding you who u be.

besides being the saviour of western civilisation is useless. western civilisation is declining and uk in particular dont want to be saved. it's too late or should I say the system is too broken to be repaired. Everybody is simply waiting for western civilisation to implode.
I doubt much can be done about it anyway

DrRasheed:
honestly speaking it does meet the requirements, sometimes even outweighs the requirements cuz I apply for lower positions too

I don't have access to the email anymore.
Look for any of my religious post and drop your response.

creativejagaban:


The feature will not be effective because if raccoon blocks me and mrvitalis quotes my post, raccoon may then see my post via the mrvitalis' quote

I.rhink it's targeted if U don't some people quoting U.

DrRasheed:



Examples:
- 1 John 5:7 (the "Trinity verse" appears in the King James Version but is absent in many modern translations because it was found to be a later addition and not in the earliest Greek manuscripts.
- Mark 16:9-20 (the "Long Ending of Mark" is also missing or footnoted in modern translations because the earliest and most reliable manuscripts end at Mark 16:8.

These are not just about English understanding — they are about real textual differences that scholars, including Christian scholars, openly acknowledge.

In contrast, the Quran has one text in Arabic globally, unchanged for over 1400 years — and every translation is called just a "translation," not a "version."
So it's not fear that's the reason Muslims do not convert; it's faith, reason, and textual consistency that give many Muslims confidence in Islam.

are those textual variant u mentioned seen in all ancient bible versions at that time?

what I mean is if I open the peshitta, latin vulgate, greek manuscript, armenian bible, coptic new testament, Garima gospel, gothic bible, all written the 5th century; will I find these so called corrupted verses in all these bible versions?

Truthseeker10:

So if Jesus disciples are one-meaning that they are united with other believers as Christ body, what does Jesus and his father are one mean? Does it mean that Jesus and his father have one body or that they are united in what they do?

John 17:22.KJV.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one


One existence as what, one person?

Believers including Jesus disciples are one as a church.

Father and Jesus are one in divinity. The head of the church.

U don't extrapolate things of the physical world unto the spirit realm. That the Church is the body of Christ and he's the heas doesn't mean we referring to a physical body.
It's a metaphorical way to explain the relationship between the church and God.

Existence as a being. A being is an existence.
God is ONE BEING, HE'S ONE EXISTENCE.

PERSON IS MANIFESTATION/FUNCTIONALITY OF A BEING.

MAN IS A BEING- ONE EXISTENCE WHO MANIFEST (normally) AS ONE PERSON.

GOD IS A BEING- ONE EXISTENCE, WHO MANIFEST AS THREE PERSON.