NewStats: 3,261,519 , 8,174,244 topics. Date: Thursday, 29 May 2025 at 01:44 PM 4t2b6c

Rich4god:
From the last Ramadan to today, I have been following what's happening in some western countries, but I just can't help but ask these few questions.

1)Why is it that during Ramadan, if Muslims sees their neighbours or friends eating, they tend to get irritated and cursing the person for not fasting. Then in some Muslims countries or areas, you tend to force people not to eat in public and close down restaurants.?
You guys usually say there is no compulsion on Islam.

2)Why is it that when you go to countries that are not islamic country, as your number grows, you guys tend to impose your laws and religion on the locals. Why can't you respect each other, practice your religion in your home than forcing it down the throats of your host.?

3)Lots of Muslims are committing atrocities all around the globe in the name of Islam.. You claim it's the extremists doing it, but the vast majority of Muslims who are not extremists will not speak up against those atrocities?

4)Here in Nigeria, after ECOWAS called for the absolution of blasphemy in western African countries, we saw some Muslims on Nigeria shouting that anyone who insults the prophet will be k:!!£d, the noise was all over social media, but we never saw any Muslim come out to refute them and saw that such k:!!:ng is against the teaching of Islam.

Islam thrives by deception, blood, and land grabbing.Islam will trigger the third world war. Yoruba land that used to be peaceful is gradually building tension because Muslims believe they are having substantial number. They are distorting our history to impose Islam on us. War is coming soon.

China is pulling down mosques everyday. Poland shooting Muslims at sight. resisting Muslims.
War is coming.

TenQ:

I don't even understand what you mean by example in negation: which you have assumed to be unitary one.
Have I not shown you clearly that Ahad is NEVER defined as Unitary ONE in the Quran?
This is sufficient for me.

Your questions.
1. Allah (generic) never defined anything in the Bible . The word Trinity doesn't even exist in the Bible. Trinity is a word we use to describe the complexity of our God YHWH who from the scriptures is
a. One Being
b. Exists simultaneously as the persons of the Infinite Invisible Holy Spirit, the Father and the Word
c. He is unlike Anyone or Anything in creation because His nature makes Him Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient.
d. The nearest to my God in description is us limited humans for we were created as a Trinity with a Body, Soul and Spirit: three persons but one being. For we were created in His image.

Thus unlike your Allah who is on top of creation, the whole Creation of the Spiritual Universe and the Physical Universe is completely Inside and within my God YHWH.
2. Yes, I do. Jesus used a lot of parables, figuratives and metaphors in teaching. Is Ahad a metaphor or a parable?


Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?
2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

You should have said so in the first place.

Now Negation gives us a way to convey that something is missing, to deny a statement, or to reject a proposition.

In those verses outside Surah 112 is this not the case in regards to the use of Ahad?

Some Christians interpret Echad in a way to the idea of the Trinity as a unified plurality, traditional Jewish and Islamic beliefs emphasize a strictly indivisible notion of divine oneness, viewing Trinitarianism quite differently.

The term Echad is a Hebrew word commonly translated as one

honesttalk21:


You should have said so in the first place.

Now Negation gives us a way to convey that something is missing, to deny a statement, or to reject a proposition.

In those verses outside Surah 112 is this not the case in regards to the use of Ahad?

Some Christians interpret Echad in a way to the idea of the Trinity as a unified plurality, traditional Jewish and Islamic beliefs emphasize a strictly indivisible notion of divine oneness, viewing Trinitarianism quite differently.

The term Echad is a Hebrew word commonly translated as one

Let me show you how Echad is used: not as singular one but compound one!

Like

Gen 2:21-24:
"And YHWH God causes a deep sleep to fall on the man, and he sleeps, and He takes one of his ribs, and closes up flesh in its stead. And YHWH God builds up the rib which He has taken out of the man into a woman, and brings her to the man; and the man says, “This at last! Bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!” For this is called Woman, for this has been taken from Man; therefore a man leaves his father and his mother, and has cleaved to his wife, and they have become one flesh."



The two of Adam and Eve shall become ONE (Ehad) Flesh


Deu 6:4:
"Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH— YHWH [is] one!"

The ONE is a compound One not Unitary One!



I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?
2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

TenQ:

Let me show you how Echad is used: not as singular one but compound one!

Like

Gen 2:21-24:
"And YHWH God causes a deep sleep to fall on the man, and he sleeps, and He takes one of his ribs, and closes up flesh in its stead. And YHWH God builds up the rib which He has taken out of the man into a woman, and brings her to the man; and the man says, “This at last! Bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!” For this is called Woman, for this has been taken from Man; therefore a man leaves his father and his mother, and has cleaved to his wife, and they have become one flesh."



The two of Adam and Eve shall become ONE (Ehad) Flesh


Deu 6:4:
"Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH— YHWH [is] one!"

The ONE is a compound One not Unitary One!



I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?
2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

Allah indeed in clearly distinct from whatever gods you may put up. He is singularly unique and absolute.

Echad and Ahad both symbolize the idea of oneness, but they carry distinct meanings within different theological contexts. The similarity in how they sound is not enough reason to absolutely equate them.

I don't see a point in engaging your what ifs as indeed at end they are just the whims of your thinking. More so as you make statements you may need to adequately define however I regret to say it will be not worthy use of my time.

I reckon we are done on the non similarity of your concept of the oneness of God and the absolute singularity of Allah.

honesttalk21:


Allah indeed in clearly distinct from whatever gods you may put up. He is singularly unique and absolute.

Echad and Ahad both symbolize the idea of oneness, but they carry distinct meanings within different theological contexts. The similarity in how they sound is not enough reason to absolutely equate them.

I don't see a point in engaging your what ifs as indeed at end they are just the whims of your thinking. More so as you make statements you may need to adequately define however I regret to say it will be not worthy use of my time.

I reckon we are done on the non similarity of your concept of the oneness of God and the absolute singularity of Allah.

I hear you. Forget about Ehad or Ahad as it has been over flogged.



I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?
2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

TenQ:

I hear you. Forget about Ehad or Ahad as it has been over flogged.



I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?
2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

Allah is over and on top literally or otherwise?
Clarity required

What sort of shape does Allah have please explain?

Allah created Adam in his image sounds more like what Christianity says.

honesttalk21:


Allah is over and on top literally or otherwise?
Clarity required

Sunan Ibn Majah 182
Waki' bin Hudus narrated that his paternal uncle Abu Razin said:
"I said: 'O Messenger of Allah, where was our Lord before He created His creation?' He said: He was above the clouds, below which was air, and above which was air and water. Then He created His Throne above the water.'"

Sunan Ibn Majah 193
It was narrated that 'Abbas bin 'Abdul-Mutallib said:
"I was in Batha with a group of people, among them whom was the Messenger of Allah. A cloud ed over him, and he looked at it and said: 'What do you call this?' They said: 'Sahab (a cloud).' He said: 'And Muzn (rain cloud).' They said: 'And Muzn.' He said: 'And 'Anan (clouds).' Abu Bakr said: "They said: 'And 'Anan.'" He said: 'How much (distance) do you think there is between you and the heavens?' They said: 'We do not know.' He said: 'Between you and it is seventy-one, or seventy-two, or seventy-three years, and there is a similar distance between it and the heaven above it (and so on)' until he counted seven heavens. 'Then above the seventh heaven there is a sea, between whose top and bottom is a distance like that between one heaven and another. Then above that there are eight mountain goats. The distance between their hooves and their knees is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then on their backs is the Throne, and the distance between the top and the bottom of the Throne is like the distance between one heaven and another. Then Allah is above that, the Blessed and Exalted."


Mishkat al-Masabih 5726
Al- `Abbas b. `Abd al-Muttalib asserted that he was sitting in al Batha'[*] with a company among whom God's messenger was sitting when a cloud ed. They looked at it and God's messenger asked, "What do you call this?" and received the reply "Clouds (sahab)." He said, "And rain-clouds (muzn)," to which they agreed. He said, "And clouds (`aman)," to which they agreed. He asked, "Do you know the distance between heaven and earth?" and when they replied that they did not, he said, "The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years, the heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like that between one heaven and the next. On their backs is the Throne the extent of which from top to bottom is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then God is above that."

honesttalk21:

What sort of shape does Allah have please explain?

Allah comes in Another shape other than the one you Muslims know of his shape.

Sahih al-Bukhari 7439
Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:
We said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" We said, "No." He said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)." The Prophet then said, "Somebody will then announce, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship.' So the companions of the cross will go with their cross, and the idolators (will go) with their idols, and the companions of every god (false deities) (will go) with their god, till there remain those who used to worship Allah, both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, and some of the people of the Scripture. Then Hell will be presented to them as if it were a mirage. Then it will be said to the Jews, "What did you use to worship?' They will reply, 'We used to worship Ezra, the son of Allah.' It will be said to them, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What do you want (now)?' They will reply, 'We want You to provide us with water.' Then it will be said to them 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). Then it will be said to the Christians, 'What did you use to worship?'

They will reply, 'We used to worship Messiah, the son of Allah.' It will be said, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What: do you want (now)?' They will say, 'We want You to provide us with water.' It will be said to them, 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only those who used to worship Allah (Alone), both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them, 'What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation........



Muslims will recognise Allah by his shin!

honesttalk21:

Allah created Adam in his image sounds more like what Christianity says.

Sahih Muslim 2612 e
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira and in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Hatim Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) is reported to have said:
When any one of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face for Allah created Adam in His own image.

Mishkat al-Masabih 3525
He reported God’s Messenger as saying, “When any of you fights he must avoid the face, for God created Adam in His own image.”


Sahih Muslim 2841
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adam, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day.





I asked questions again

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

TenQ:


Sunan Ibn Majah 182
Waki' bin Hudus narrated that his paternal uncle Abu Razin said:
"I said: 'O Messenger of Allah, where was our Lord before He created His creation?' He said: He was above the clouds, below which was air, and above which was air and water. Then He created His Throne above the water.'"

Sunan Ibn Majah 193
It was narrated that 'Abbas bin 'Abdul-Mutallib said:
"I was in Batha with a group of people, among them whom was the Messenger of Allah. A cloud ed over him, and he looked at it and said: 'What do you call this?' They said: 'Sahab (a cloud).' He said: 'And Muzn (rain cloud).' They said: 'And Muzn.' He said: 'And 'Anan (clouds).' Abu Bakr said: "They said: 'And 'Anan.'" He said: 'How much (distance) do you think there is between you and the heavens?' They said: 'We do not know.' He said: 'Between you and it is seventy-one, or seventy-two, or seventy-three years, and there is a similar distance between it and the heaven above it (and so on)' until he counted seven heavens. 'Then above the seventh heaven there is a sea, between whose top and bottom is a distance like that between one heaven and another. Then above that there are eight mountain goats. The distance between their hooves and their knees is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then on their backs is the Throne, and the distance between the top and the bottom of the Throne is like the distance between one heaven and another. Then Allah is above that, the Blessed and Exalted."


Mishkat al-Masabih 5726
Al- `Abbas b. `Abd al-Muttalib asserted that he was sitting in al Batha'[*] with a company among whom God's messenger was sitting when a cloud ed. They looked at it and God's messenger asked, "What do you call this?" and received the reply "Clouds (sahab)." He said, "And rain-clouds (muzn)," to which they agreed. He said, "And clouds (`aman)," to which they agreed. He asked, "Do you know the distance between heaven and earth?" and when they replied that they did not, he said, "The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years, the heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like that between one heaven and the next. On their backs is the Throne the extent of which from top to bottom is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then God is above that."


Allah comes in Another shape other than the one you Muslims know of his shape.

Sahih al-Bukhari 7439
Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:
We said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" We said, "No." He said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)." The Prophet then said, "Somebody will then announce, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship.' So the companions of the cross will go with their cross, and the idolators (will go) with their idols, and the companions of every god (false deities) (will go) with their god, till there remain those who used to worship Allah, both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, and some of the people of the Scripture. Then Hell will be presented to them as if it were a mirage. Then it will be said to the Jews, "What did you use to worship?' They will reply, 'We used to worship Ezra, the son of Allah.' It will be said to them, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What do you want (now)?' They will reply, 'We want You to provide us with water.' Then it will be said to them 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). Then it will be said to the Christians, 'What did you use to worship?'

They will reply, 'We used to worship Messiah, the son of Allah.' It will be said, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What: do you want (now)?' They will say, 'We want You to provide us with water.' It will be said to them, 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only those who used to worship Allah (Alone), both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them, 'What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation........



Muslims will recognise Allah by his shin!




Sahih Muslim 2612 e
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira and in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Hatim Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) is reported to have said:
When any one of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face for Allah created Adam in His own image.

Mishkat al-Masabih 3525
He reported God’s Messenger as saying, “When any of you fights he must avoid the face, for God created Adam in His own image.”


Sahih Muslim 2841
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adam, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day.





I asked questions again

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

In all you copied to paste you failed to answer whether Allah is over and on top literally or otherwise? Nor what or how exactly the shape of Allah is.

Do you yourself not understand?

These hadiths that seem to imply a physical aspect of Allah should really be viewed through the lens of Tawḥīd and the insights of traditional Islamic scholarship.

To start, the Qur'an emphasizes Allah’s transcendence with the verse: “There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him...” (Surah al-Shūra 42:11). This clearly indicates that Allah exists beyond any physical limitations or attributes.

Renowned scholars, like Imam Mālik, have warned against taking verses about Allah’s “above-ness” too literally, pointing out that such phrases are more about rank than physical form.
Additionally, when it comes to narrations about Allah appearing in various forms, these should be interpreted metaphorically

Believers will recognize Allah by the Shin, not because they saw it before, but because:
*It is a distinctive sign given by Allah,

*Or because Allah gives them the insight to recognize it in that moment.

The “Shin” in this hadith is part of the unseen (ghayb) and is affirmed in Islamic texts.

It should be understood literally (without likening it to creation) or metaphorically (as a symbol of Divine Might). Either way, it emphasizes:

Allah’s uniqueness,

The special relationship believers have with Him,

And the truth of the Final Hour where realities are made manifest.
Scholars such as Imam al-Nawawī suggest that these descriptions are meant to challenge believers' faith, the believers will recognize Allah by the Shin, not because they saw it before, but because:

It is a distinctive sign given by Allah,

Or because Allah gives them the insight to recognize it in that moment. them to recognize Allah through His signs rather than through any physical representation.

Furthermore the statement that Allah created Adam in His image speaks to the completeness of Adam’s creation, not a physical likeness.

As Imam ʿAlī Zayn al-ʿĀbidīn notes, Allah's essence is beyond what humans can fully grasp. In conclusion, we understand these hadiths within a framework that honors Allah’s uniqueness and transcendence, steering clear of interpretations that might lead to anthropomorphism, which aligns with our core belief in Tawḥīd.

honesttalk21:


In all you copied to paste you failed to answer whether Allah is over and on top literally or otherwise? Nor what or how exactly the shape of Allah is.

Do you yourself not understand?

These hadiths that seem to imply a physical aspect of Allah should really be viewed through the lens of Tawḥīd and the insights of traditional Islamic scholarship.

I think you answered yourself.
Of a truth, reading the hadiths unbiased, Allah was described by Mohammad in a physical and spacial sense.

It is a problem that you as Muslims must try to reinterpret non-literarilly to solve.

honesttalk21:

To start, the Qur'an emphasizes Allah’s transcendence with the verse: “There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him...” (Surah al-Shūra 42:11). This clearly indicates that Allah exists beyond any physical limitations or attributes.

There is nothing like Allah is NOT about physical attributes otherwise, trinity wouldn't be an issue to Muslims. Taoheed is simply forcing Allah into the mold of "oneness" of physical objects.
You cannot eat your cakes and have it .
There is nothing like Amoeba is a true statement as it doesn't confer any special attributes to it .

honesttalk21:

Renowned scholars, like Imam Mālik, have warned against taking verses about Allah’s “above-ness” too literally, pointing out that such phrases are more about rank than physical form.
Additionally, when it comes to narrations about Allah appearing in various forms, these should be interpreted metaphorically

The description of Mohammed wasn't metaphoric in any sense because he linked it with the cloud and the seven earths and heavens.

honesttalk21:

Believers will recognize Allah by the Shin, not because they saw it before, but because:
*It is a distinctive sign given by Allah,

*Or because Allah gives them the insight to recognize it in that moment.

The “Shin” in this hadith is part of the unseen (ghayb) and is affirmed in Islamic texts.

It should be understood literally (without likening it to creation) or metaphorically (as a symbol of Divine Might). Either way, it emphasizes:

Allah’s uniqueness,

The special relationship believers have with Him,

And the truth of the Final Hour where realities are made manifest.
Scholars such as Imam al-Nawawī suggest that these descriptions are meant to challenge believers' faith, the believers will recognize Allah by the Shin, not because they saw it before, but because:

It is a distinctive sign given by Allah,

Or because Allah gives them the insight to recognize it in that moment. them to recognize Allah through His signs rather than through any physical representation.

Allah has eyes, hands, shape and shin that would be seen by people as clear as they see the moon convey that Allah is bound in space and time.
It is a problem of Taoheed that cannot be resolved without refusing sense and logic.

honesttalk21:

Furthermore the statement that Allah created Adam in His image speaks to the completeness of Adam’s creation, not a physical likeness.

If this is true, what then is complete with a persons face with respect to the look of Adam?
Even animals were created complete in their physical likeness.

It seems you don't have any answer to this.

honesttalk21:

As Imam ʿAlī Zayn al-ʿĀbidīn notes, Allah's essence is beyond what humans can fully grasp. In conclusion, we understand these hadiths within a framework that honors Allah’s uniqueness and transcendence, steering clear of interpretations that might lead to anthropomorphism, which aligns with our core belief in Tawḥīd.

In other words, you intend to avoid the problem created by your doctrine under ignorance.


The Hadiths are very very clear from Mohammed. Allah is localised in space, he has a body with shapes. Because Allah is singular, this makes him
Not Omnipresent nor Omnipotent not Omniscient.

These are necessary conclusion from the doctrine of Taoheed

TenQ:

I think you answered yourself.
Of a truth, reading the hadiths unbiased, Allah was described by Mohammad in a physical and spacial sense.

It is a problem that you as Muslims must try to reinterpret non-literarilly to solve.


There is nothing like Allah is NOT about physical attributes otherwise, trinity wouldn't be an issue to Muslims. Taoheed is simply forcing Allah into the mold of "oneness" of physical objects.
You cannot eat your cakes and have it .
There is nothing like Amoeba is a true statement as it doesn't confer any special attributes to it .





The description of Mohammed wasn't metaphoric in any sense because he linked it with the cloud and the seven earths and heavens.




Allah has eyes, hands, shape and shin that would be seen by people as clear as they see the moon convey that Allah is bound in space and time.
It is a problem of Taoheed that cannot be resolved without refusing sense and logic.




If this is true, what then is complete with a persons face with respect to the look of Adam?
Even animals were created complete in their physical likeness.

It seems you don't have any answer to this.



In other words, you intend to avoid the problem created by your doctrine under ignorance.


The Hadiths are very very clear from Mohammed. Allah is localised in space, he has a body with shapes. Because Allah is singular, this makes him
Not Omnipresent nor Omnipotent not Omniscient.

These are necessary conclusion from the doctrine of Taoheed

Wow! Is this your summation? Is it really sensible in your thinking?

Oh you are talking about physical but fail to acknowledge that some of the way you sense the existence of the almighty is in physical occurrence.
You now wrongly try to limit an undefined islamic view to physical trinity? Is your trinity physical or spiritual or have you now picked one to be? I am about tumbling over.

What is there to force. You are often trying to force things until your mumbo jumbo is clearly dismantled. You forget your earlier stance on Echad and Ahad to mean the same thing? Did you not try to force your echad interpretation unto Ahad even when not all native Jews agree with a plural unity.

The Hadiths as stated are to be appropriately understood and Allah is not confined or defined by space. The figurative language is to be understood as that which isn't literal.

Do you have problems appreciating the manifestation of the power of the almighty in the world around you and yourself? If you don't are these manifestation the same as seeing the one who lets this manifest?

You are your sole problem haven created your god in your own image and expectations however wrong and trying to force what really is into your contraption. It doesn't work that way. Tenq does and cannot define the almighty and his nature.

Hey yeah, tenq is too close thinking to appreciate. It isn't a reference to physical likeness but rather points to the noble qualities that Adam was endowed with by Allah,in a manner suitable for humans, and underscores his honored status among creation.

Avoid? Really? What's to avoid haven answered already or what is it with you and recurring nonsense?

The questions were very simple.


I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?


Unfortunately, your only solution to this was to redescribe Allah differently from how Mohammed described him.

honesttalk21:

Wow! Is this your summation? Is it really sensible in your thinking?

Oh you are talking about physical but fail to acknowledge that some of the way you sense the existence of the almighty is in physical occurrence.
You now wrongly try to limit an undefined islamic view to physical trinity? Is your trinity physical or spiritual or have you now picked one to be? I am about tumbling over.

I am only going with the Tafsir of your prophet in the hadiths about Allah. Is it untrue that the best description of Allah should be that given by Mohammed.
Now, you seem to deny his description. What do we do now?

honesttalk21:

What is there to force. You are often trying to force things until your mumbo jumbo is clearly dismantled. You forget your earlier stance on Echad and Ahad to mean the same thing? Did you not try to force your echad interpretation unto Ahad even when not all native Jews agree with a plural unity.

Is your argument that the Jews are correct about the interpretation of their scripture? Because, if they are correct, they should have come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Messiah. Since they couldn't, your argument falls yakata to the ground.

honesttalk21:

The Hadiths as stated are to be appropriately understood and Allah is not confined or defined by space. The figurative language is to be understood as that which isn't literal.

Hadiths like this are Tafsirs of your prophet, unfortunately, you reject it.
It's your call o!
Mohammed described Allah in of space, time and location. What then do you expect? To help you to redefine the nature of Allah?

honesttalk21:

Do you have problems appreciating the manifestation of the power of the almighty in the world around you and yourself? If you don't are these manifestation the same as seeing the one who lets this manifest?

When you defined Allah in of Taoheed (onensss), you ascribe to him properties unique to physical existence. You unknowingly strip Allah of Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence without knowing.
Your only way out is to make vague every description your prophet gave Allah.

Is it true that your prophet went before Allah to receive the five daily prayers or is it allegorical?

honesttalk21:


You are your sole problem haven created your god in your own image and expectations however wrong and trying to force what really is into your contraption. It doesn't work that way. Tenq does and cannot define the almighty and his nature.

Hey yeah, tenq is too close thinking to appreciate. It isn't a reference to physical likeness but rather points to the noble qualities that Adam was endowed with by Allah,in a manner suitable for humans, and underscores his honored status among creation.

Avoid? Really? What's to avoid haven answered already or what is it with you and recurring nonsense?

Are you aware that you couldn't answer how Adam was created in Allah's image?


Your prophet obviously saw Allah as physical, otherwise, why would he relate hitting the face with Allah's image!

TenQ:
The questions were very simple.


I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?


Unfortunately, your only solution to this was to redescribe Allah differently from how Mohammed described him.



I am only going with the Tafsir of your prophet in the hadiths about Allah. Is it untrue that the best description of Allah should be that given by Mohammed.
Now, you seem to deny his description. What do we do now?



Is your argument that the Jews are correct about the interpretation of their scripture? Because, if they are correct, they should have come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Messiah. Since they couldn't, your argument falls yakata to the ground.



Hadiths like this are Tafsirs of your prophet, unfortunately, you reject it.
It's your call o!
Mohammed described Allah in of space, time and location. What then do you expect? To help you to redefine the nature of Allah?




When you defined Allah in of Taoheed (onensss), you ascribe to him properties unique to physical existence. You unknowingly strip Allah of Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence without knowing.
Your only way out is to make vague every description your prophet gave Allah.

Is it true that your prophet went before Allah to receive the five daily prayers or is it allegorical?



Are you aware that you couldn't answer how Adam was created in Allah's image?


Your prophet obviously saw Allah as physical, otherwise, why would he relate hitting the face with Allah's image!

It is true that Tenq doesn't genuinely ask but has fixation about what is accepted then when extensively exhausted and dismissed he starts with another line of nonsensical question.

The saying of the Prophet (ﷺ): "Allah does not sleep" and "His veil is light, and if he were to remove it, the splendour of his face would burn all of his creation, as far as hs sght reaches".

TenQ:


2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

Utterly shallow understanding!


The Prophet Muḥammad pbuh mentioned that Allah created Adam in His image, and there's a hadith that even describes Adam's height. But when we talk about being created "in His image," it’s not meant to be taken literally as a physical likeness. Instead, it’s usually understood to symbolize the divine qualities that are reflected in humans, albeit in a limited and created form.

TenQ:


Is your argument that the Jews are correct about the interpretation of their scripture? Because, if they are correct, they should have come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Messiah. Since they couldn't, your argument falls yakata to the ground.

The rejection of Jesus as the Messiah by many Jews can be attributed to several factors, primarily his lack of worldly power and the nature of his crucifixion.

This is between you and them though.

Echad stresses the oneness of God without implying plurality, shows fundamental differences in theology between Judaism and Christianity.


Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him ˹in worship˺ but forgives anything else of whoever He wills. And whoever associates others with Allah has indeed committed a grave sin.

TenQ:
The questions were very simple.


I asked you some questions

Questions
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?


Unfortunately, your only solution to this was to redescribe Allah differently from how Mohammed described him.



I am only going with the Tafsir of your prophet in the hadiths about Allah. Is it untrue that the best description of Allah should be that given by Mohammed.
Now, you seem to deny his description. What do we do now?



Is your argument that the Jews are correct about the interpretation of their scripture? Because, if they are correct, they should have come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Messiah. Since they couldn't, your argument falls yakata to the ground.



Hadiths like this are Tafsirs of your prophet, unfortunately, you reject it.
It's your call o!
Mohammed described Allah in of space, time and location. What then do you expect? To help you to redefine the nature of Allah?




When you defined Allah in of Taoheed (onensss), you ascribe to him properties unique to physical existence. You unknowingly strip Allah of Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence without knowing.
Your only way out is to make vague every description your prophet gave Allah.

Is it true that your prophet went before Allah to receive the five daily prayers or is it allegorical?



Are you aware that you couldn't answer how Adam was created in Allah's image?


Your prophet obviously saw Allah as physical, otherwise, why would he relate hitting the face with Allah's image!

Let’s dismantle your pseudo-logical theatrics, point by point. You’re not asking questions in pursuit of truth—you’re setting up straw men with loaded assumptions, then pretending to be shocked when they collapse under scrutiny.

1. Your claim: If Allah is one, above the universe, not a spirit, and has a shape—then He cannot be logically omnipresent.

This is a textbook case of category error and philosophical ignorance.

Being “above” creation does not imply spatial limitation. Allah being “over” the universe refers to transcendence—not physical location as you understand it through your human lens. You're equating divine transcendence with being “in a place.” That’s like asking where the number 7 lives. Your reasoning collapses because you don’t grasp the distinction between the created physical realm and the uncreated nature of the Divine.

Omnipresence in Islamic theology doesn't mean Allah is “spread out” like gas or a spirit hovering in space. It means that His knowledge, power, and will encom every atom of existence. He is not contained within creation, yet nothing escapes His grasp. This is a coherent and well-established theological view—and far more intellectually robust than your clumsy materialistic framing.

Also, “has a shape” is an empty phrase unless you define what you mean by it. Are you claiming shape = limited? If so, prove that concept within metaphysical theology—don’t just throw it out like it’s obvious.

Your logic is flawed from the ground up because it applies corporeal mechanics to a non-corporeal Being whose attributes transcend creation. You might as well argue that mathematics can't exist because it doesn't have mass.

2. Your attempt to weaponize the hadith: “Allah created Adam in His image.”

Once again, this is a linguistic and theological misfire on your part. The hadith (in Arabic: "khalaqa Allahu Adama ‘ala suratihi" has multiple scholarly interpretations, and none of them the childish literalism you’re trying to force:

The phrase “in His image” has been understood to mean Adam was created with faculties—like hearing, seeing, speaking—not that Allah has a human form. That’s basic. If you’re unfamiliar with classical exegesis, that’s on you—not the tradition.

Furthermore, nothing in this hadith necessitates anthropomorphism. The Prophet himself repeatedly emphasized that “nothing is like unto Him” (laysa kamithlihi shay’ - Qur’an 42:11). That’s the interpretive rule you ignore because it ruins your weak argument.

Finally, your closing claim: “Your only solution was to redescribe Allah differently from how Muhammad described Him.”

No. The solution is to understand the context, language, and limits of your reasoning, which you clearly haven’t. You’re not exposing contradiction—you’re exposing your own theological illiteracy and philosophical shallowness.

Islamic theology has addressed these nuances for over 1,000 years—from Ash’aris, Maturidis, to Hanbalis. You’re not doing anything original. You’re just regurgitating failed arguments from orientalist blogs and atheist forums without even understanding the basic you’re throwing around.

If you want to critique Islamic theology, fine—but do it with intellectual integrity, not with juvenile strawmen and smug ignorance masquerading as logic.

Rich4god honesttalk21 TenQ

TheJustPath:
Let’s dismantle your pseudo-logical theatrics, point by point. You’re not asking questions in pursuit of truth—you’re setting up straw men with loaded assumptions, then pretending to be shocked when they collapse under scrutiny.

1. Your claim: If Allah is one, above the universe, not a spirit, and has a shape—then He cannot be logically omnipresent.

This is a textbook case of category error and philosophical ignorance.

Being “above” creation does not imply spatial limitation. Allah being “over” the universe refers to transcendence—not physical location as you understand it through your human lens. You're equating divine transcendence with being “in a place.” That’s like asking where the number 7 lives. Your reasoning collapses because you don’t grasp the distinction between the created physical realm and the uncreated nature of the Divine.

Omnipresence in Islamic theology doesn't mean Allah is “spread out” like gas or a spirit hovering in space. It means that His knowledge, power, and will encom every atom of existence. He is not contained within creation, yet nothing escapes His grasp. This is a coherent and well-established theological view—and far more intellectually robust than your clumsy materialistic framing.

Also, “has a shape” is an empty phrase unless you define what you mean by it. Are you claiming shape = limited? If so, prove that concept within metaphysical theology—don’t just throw it out like it’s obvious.

Your logic is flawed from the ground up because it applies corporeal mechanics to a non-corporeal Being whose attributes transcend creation. You might as well argue that mathematics can't exist because it doesn't have mass.

2. Your attempt to weaponize the hadith: “Allah created Adam in His image.”

Once again, this is a linguistic and theological misfire on your part. The hadith (in Arabic: "khalaqa Allahu Adama ‘ala suratihi" has multiple scholarly interpretations, and none of them the childish literalism you’re trying to force:

The phrase “in His image” has been understood to mean Adam was created with faculties—like hearing, seeing, speaking—not that Allah has a human form. That’s basic. If you’re unfamiliar with classical exegesis, that’s on you—not the tradition.

Furthermore, nothing in this hadith necessitates anthropomorphism. The Prophet himself repeatedly emphasized that “nothing is like unto Him” (laysa kamithlihi shay’ - Qur’an 42:11). That’s the interpretive rule you ignore because it ruins your weak argument.

Finally, your closing claim: “Your only solution was to redescribe Allah differently from how Muhammad described Him.”

No. The solution is to understand the context, language, and limits of your reasoning, which you clearly haven’t. You’re not exposing contradiction—you’re exposing your own theological illiteracy and philosophical shallowness.

Islamic theology has addressed these nuances for over 1,000 years—from Ash’aris, Maturidis, to Hanbalis. You’re not doing anything original. You’re just regurgitating failed arguments from orientalist blogs and atheist forums without even understanding the basic you’re throwing around.

If you want to critique Islamic theology, fine—but do it with intellectual integrity, not with juvenile strawmen and smug ignorance masquerading as logic.

Rich4god honesttalk21 TenQ

Never mind Tenq and his silly defective interpretation

TenQ:

Can you see that your bias has made you unable to comprehend even simple conversations.
I never claimed even once that theft in mosques proves a deficiency in Islam. Check again.
Instead, I showed that even though the church and mosques are supposed to be holy places, people come there to steal. And I used footwears and phones as examples in mosques and churches.
But your bias made you see otherwise .
You need to read again and comment on exactly what I wrote not what you felt I said. The summary is that the behaviour of one or two thieves in a church or mosque make us behave with caution even though the thieves are minorities. Hence my argument is that as long as there are a few minorities of Muslims with the radical interpretation of Islam, can we as Christians take them for granted?

Cool down bro! I am not your enemy!


As far as Jesus is concerned, no one gets to paradise without Him. Meaning that Muslims will go to hell because they have not received the gift from Gospel of Salvation.

On the other hand, for you Muslims, we have a contradiction
1. Allah says that Christians, Jews and Sabeans will enter paradise.
2. You Muslims say the Jews are cursed and the Christians are Mislead.
How then can the cursed and the mislead enter paradise?
3. The Sabeans worship the stars/constellations and a sect of them worship satan directly. How did Allah say these will go to paradise? Is it because they claim John the Baptist to be their prophet?

Your claim that
The Quran acknowledges that salvation is open to righteous Jews, Christians, and Sabians before the message of Islam was completed (Quran 2:62). is complete falsehood as Allah nor your prophet never said that.

Do I have to remind you that the condition of Quran 2:62 are
a. Belief in God
b. Belief in the last day
c. Doing righteous deeds

I challenge you to give me where Allah says the condition is before the message of Islam was concluded.

It seems you forgot that Islam was the religion of Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jesus! LOL!



You just buttress my point.
The paradise of Jesus is DIFFERENT from the paradise of Mohammed.

It's not the same place.

If the Paradise of Jesus is NOT your paradise, you may have some rethinking to do o.

Your paradise seems to be a place of debauchery: your scholars say that nothing is sin in your paradise.

Your paradise seems more like a Temptation rather than reward for obedience to the God of the heavens and the earth.



There is n contradiction between the Torah and the Gospels, what exist is a REJECTION by the modern Jews of the message of the Gospel. You forget that the Tanakh is the Old Testament of the Christians. LOL!!

What is the original message of the Torah and Injeel?
Do you have them or you have manufactured conjectures as usual?

Unfortunately, it is worse that this as it seems that you know better than Allah.

If the Torah, Injeel, Zabur and others not mentioned by name in the Qur'an are the words of Allah and non can change Allah's words, tell me if you aren't going against your God!

Secondly, Allah asked us Christians to judge by what he has revealed in our Injeel: Is Allah asking us to judge by that which is corrupted?

DidnI not remind you that even in the Qur'an, Jesus made lawful things made unlawful for the children of Israel?

Allah would be wrong or ignorant if indeed the Torah and the Gospel are corrupted or you know better than Allah as your God NEVER claimed your insinuations about our scripture

Who is wrong then between Allah and you?


Are you aware that if you are correct, then Allah would be either Ignorant or Wrong because Allah attests to our scripture. Your prophet also attests to our scripture 600AD.

Was your your prophet telling lies when he said he believes in the Torah and the one who sent it or was that Taqqiya?


See how you conjectures scattered like a pack of cards! LOL!!


Talk is cheap!
You are manufacturing conjectures again
Can you show me exactly where Allah or your prophet said anything about what the Messiah is for his prophecy is all about the Torah you claimed has been corrupted.



But Jesus wasn't created by the word be!
Have you forgotten that Jibril was Sent to BLOW into the Farjaha of Mary!?
You forgot that Jesus was a spirit from Allah cast down to Mary?

Do you know any man who bears the title of a Spirit from Allah and his Word apart from Jesus?

Don't just repeat your scholars consensus, give me evidence from Allah or your prophet!

You seem to forget that in your deen, there are just two spirits. One is Jibril and the other is Jesus (even though you don't even know what a spirit is)



Why are you muddling two different things
1. Are you saying that John the Baptist was filled with Jibril from the womb?
2. Let me remind you of the significance according to your prophet.

You didn't answer the question!
Why was it that only Jesus and Mary satan did not touch at birth?


Is it untrue that just as Allah molded clay into Adam, Jesus moulded clay into a bird?
Is it untrue that just as Allah breathe into the moulded clay of Adam, Jesus breathe into the moulded clay of the bird?
Is it untrue that just as Adam came to life, the clay bird came to life?

Have you forgotten that Allah gave a challenge about gods who cannot even create a fly?


Qur'an 22:73
Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!


Why is Jesus the only co-creator of life with Allah?


According to Islam, Jesus did NOT die. He is ALIVE with Allah. Do you know anyone in Islam like this?

Prophets are supposed to be in the graves doing salat but Jesus is different. He is with Allah!

The Question is why?



LOL!
How is Jesus being born from a virgin a sign? A sign to who? Who were the witnesses for it to be a sign?

Why was it even necessary that Jesus comes through a virgin?

I asked you to give theological answers from Islam to my questions but all you were doing was to negate divine nature of Jesus. Unfortunately, my questions wasn't to prove the devine nature of Jesus, NO! It was to make you see the uniqueness of Jesus who you depreciated for your prophet Mohammed!



When you don't have answers, come to the people of the book to show you rather than cooking up conjectures.
Unfortunately, you won't.

This same Jesus that Allah invested everything he gave no other human being was the same one Allah destroyed his ministry by creating Christianity.

Allah deceived the Jews that they killed Jesus
Allah deceived the Romans that they killed Jesus
At the same time
Allah deceived the Apostles of Jesus that Jesus was crucified and died.
Allah then deceived Mary the mother of Jesus that Jesus was crucified and died


Allah followed up this deception with the Disciples burying Jesus
And Allah showed them Jesus resurrecting on the third day and showing Himself to the disciples
Allah showed Jesus going up to heaven in the presence of all his disciples in Galilee.

Allah then waited for 630 years to tell the Christians that ALL was an Elaborate LIE

Tell me, is this your God?

I wish you are on clubhouse. I wonder what creativeorbit and Antichristian answers to these questions are

TheJustPath:
Let’s dismantle your pseudo-logical theatrics, point by point. You’re not asking questions in pursuit of truth—you’re setting up straw men with loaded assumptions, then pretending to be shocked when they collapse under scrutiny.

1. Your claim: If Allah is one, above the universe, not a spirit, and has a shape—then He cannot be logically omnipresent.
This is a textbook case of category error and philosophical ignorance.

Allah you needed to do was to answer the question OR falsify ANY of the premise.

Again:
The Question
1. Do you concur that if the following are TRUE that
1. Allah is one and
2. Allah is over/on top of the universe and
3. Allah is not a spirit and
4. Allah has at least a shape
then Allah CANNOT be LOGICALLY Omnipresent?

TheJustPath:

Being “above” creation does not imply spatial limitation. Allah being “over” the universe refers to transcendence—not physical location as you understand it through your human lens. You're equating divine transcendence with being “in a place.” That’s like asking where the number 7 lives. Your reasoning collapses because you don’t grasp the distinction between the created physical realm and the uncreated nature of the Divine.

Your prophet seems to disagree with you.
a. The Qur'an itself makes the claim that there are 7 earths and 7 heavens:
b. Your prophet described the seven earths in a literal manner

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3298
Al-Hasan narrated that:
Abu Hurairah said: “Once when the Prophet of Allah was sitting with his Companions, a cloud came above them, so the Prophet of Allah said: ‘Do you know what this is?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘These are the clouds that are to drench the earth, which Allah [Blessed and Most High] dispatches to people who are not grateful to Him, nor supplicate to Him.’ Then he said: Do ‘ you know what is above you?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Indeed it is a preserved canopy of the firmament whose surge is restrained.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know how much is between you and between it?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Between you and it [is the distance] of five-hundred year.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know what is above that.’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Verily, above that are two Heavens, between the two of them there is a distance of five-hundred years’ – until he enumerated seven Heavens – ‘What is between each of the two Heavens is what is between the heavens and the earth.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know what is above that?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Verily, above that is the Throne between it and the heavens is a distance [like] what is between two of the heavens.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know what is under you?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Indeed it is the earth.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know what is under that?' They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Verily, below it is another earth, between the two of which is a distance of five-hundred years.’ Until he enumerated seven earths: ‘Between every two earths is a distance of five-hundred years.’ Then he said: ‘By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad! If you were to send [a man] down with a rope to the lowest earth, then he would descend upon Allah.’ Then he recited: He is Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, Az-Zahir Al-Batin, and He has knowledge over all things.”

Can you see a clear evidence you chose to ignore!? Did you see ABOVE... BELOW....!?

So, here is another EVIDENCE showing that your own prophet meant spacial locations.
Too bad with hindsight, you think it shouldn't be, but it is according to your prophet.

TheJustPath:

Omnipresence in Islamic theology doesn't mean Allah is “spread out” like gas or a spirit hovering in space. It means that His knowledge, power, and will encom every atom of existence. He is not contained within creation, yet nothing escapes His grasp. This is a coherent and well-established theological view—and far more intellectually robust than your clumsy materialistic framing.

It is NOT up to you to redefine the meaning of Omnipresence.

Omnipresence means being present everywhere at the same time. In a religious context, it refers to God's ability to be present throughout the entire universe simultaneously, with no place where God is absent.

Awareness of what is happening is NOT Omnipresence, it may be an aspect of Omniscience

Do you concur that by normal definition of the word, Allah is NOT Omnipresent?

TheJustPath:

Also, “has a shape” is an empty phrase unless you define what you mean by it. Are you claiming shape = limited? If so, prove that concept within metaphysical theology—don’t just throw it out like it’s obvious.

Your logic is flawed from the ground up because it applies corporeal mechanics to a non-corporeal Being whose attributes transcend creation. You might as well argue that mathematics can't exist because it doesn't have mass.

What is a SHAPE?
A Shape is a noun that refers to the external form, outline, or appearance of an object or figure. It describes the two-dimensional or three-dimensional configuration that distinguishes one object from another based on its contours, edges, and overall structure. Shape defines the boundaries of an object or entity

As living beings, whatever we see has a shape and things we cannot see don't have any shape.

If you can see the sun, however big it is, it implies that the sun is FINITE. If you can see an Angel, the Angel is FINITE.

This, since you Muslims will see Allah, then he must be finite and necessarily not Omnipresent ACCORDING to the hadiths of your prophet.

Do you concur that ANYTHING you can see has a Shape (whether physical or spiritual)?

Do you concur that ANYTHING that has a Shape (whether physical or spiritual) is limited?

If Allah has a shape, and he is ONE, then he is bounded in space and as such not Omnipresent!

Can you see the logical fallacy of Taoheed!?

TheJustPath:

2. Your attempt to weaponize the hadith: “Allah created Adam in His image.”

Once again, this is a linguistic and theological misfire on your part. The hadith (in Arabic: "khalaqa Allahu Adama ‘ala suratihi" has multiple scholarly interpretations, and none of them the childish literalism you’re trying to force:

The phrase “in His image” has been understood to mean Adam was created with faculties—like hearing, seeing, speaking—not that Allah has a human form. That’s basic. If you’re unfamiliar with classical exegesis, that’s on you—not the tradition.

Using your powerful logic,
Dogs, Cats, Monkeys are also created in the image of Allah! (Argument: they werr created by Allah with faculties—like hearing, seeing, speaking etc)

SMH!

So, can you please answer the question again?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

TheJustPath:

Furthermore, nothing in this hadith necessitates anthropomorphism. The Prophet himself repeatedly emphasized that “nothing is like unto Him” (laysa kamithlihi shay’ - Qur’an 42:11). That’s the interpretive rule you ignore because it ruins your weak argument.

Except your prophet was telling lies, Adam was created in the image of Allah. This necessarily, if this is true, Adam is like Allah faulting laysa kamithlihi shay

On a serious note:
Quran 42:11 is just emphasising that nothing is comparable to Allah in attributes. In other words, Allah is far Greater than anything by his attributes.
Mohammed is not speaking of the SHAPE of Allah: otherwise, Allah also has Eyes, Shin, Two hands etc.

Do you disagree with this?
If you do, you may need to explain why Allah has a throne!

TheJustPath:

Finally, your closing claim: “Your only solution was to redescribe Allah differently from how Muhammad described Him.”

No. The solution is to understand the context, language, and limits of your reasoning, which you clearly haven’t. You’re not exposing contradiction—you’re exposing your own theological illiteracy and philosophical shallowness.

Islamic theology has addressed these nuances for over 1,000 years—from Ash’aris, Maturidis, to Hanbalis. You’re not doing anything original. You’re just regurgitating failed arguments from orientalist blogs and atheist forums without even understanding the basic you’re throwing around.

If you want to critique Islamic theology, fine—but do it with intellectual integrity, not with juvenile strawmen and smug ignorance masquerading as logic.

Rich4god honesttalk21 TenQ

I am sorry that the hadiths expose the hypocrisy of Muslims as in many instances, the hadiths are the Tafsirs of the Qur'an by Mohammed himself AND you Muslims are so ashamed of them that you have to manufacture conjectures to say exactly opposite to what Mohammed means.

Do you understand Allah or the Qur'an better than Mohammed?

If not, please accept whatever Mohammed explains about Allah, the Qur'an and the unseen!

honesttalk21:


Never mind Tenq and his silly defective interpretation

You know that I always back up any claim with your own religious sources.

Your prophet is the one interpreting your religion but you reject it for your own whimsy opinions

honesttalk21:
The saying of the Prophet (ﷺ): "Allah does not sleep" and "His veil is light, and if he were to remove it, the splendour of his face would burn all of his creation, as far as hs sght reaches".

Is this a literal statement that Allah's face would burn all his creations or allegorical statement.

Because it has implications.
If truely Mohammed went to the LOCATION where Allah is and spoke to him behind the veil, THEN Allah is surely NOT Omnipresent

Several ways to prove the same thing.

honesttalk21:

Utterly shallow understanding!


The Prophet Muḥammad pbuh mentioned that Allah created Adam in His image, and there's a hadith that even describes Adam's height. But when we talk about being created "in His image," it’s not meant to be taken literally as a physical likeness. Instead, it’s usually understood to symbolize the divine qualities that are reflected in humans, albeit in a limited and created form.

Tell us the relationship of Adam's height to Allah's attributes
AND
Tell us the relationship of Adam's Face to Allah's attributes

Why did your prophet emphasized Adam's Face and Height?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

honesttalk21:

The rejection of Jesus as the Messiah by many Jews can be attributed to several factors, primarily his lack of worldly power and the nature of his crucifixion.

This is between you and them though.

Echad stresses the oneness of God without implying plurality, shows fundamental differences in theology between Judaism and Christianity.

Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him ˹in worship˺ but forgives anything else of whoever He wills. And whoever associates others with Allah has indeed committed a grave sin.

It seems you don't know that the Jewish scholars used to believe in the duality of God known as "the two powers of heaven" which was entirely rejected at the advent of Christianity?

Let me show you just one scripture in the Torah that explains it.

Gen 19:24:
"and YHWH (on earth) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH, from the heavens;"

They saw YHWH who comes to the earth either as a Man or an Angel or as Pillar of Cloud and Fire who is also Simultaneously on His Throne in Heaven.

Because of the Christians teaching Trinity, they rejected any of their doctrine that suggests the Triune nature of God.

Again,
Let me show you what Echad means. God says that Adam and Eve are ONE (Echad) for it means COMPOUND UNITY

Gen 2:24:
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall to his wife: and they shall be one (ECHAD) flesh."


Unfortunately, because Allah is solitary One, he cannot be simultaneously in more than one place at a time.

1. Can Allah enter your toilet?
Can Allah enter your grave?

If he can't, he is not Omnipresent




Secondly,
2. If Christians are indeed associating partners with Allah AND Qur’an 5:72 is TRUE, can you explain who Allah thinks Christians are associating with himself?

honesttalk21:


It is true that Tenq doesn't genuinely ask but has fixation about what is accepted then when extensively exhausted and dismissed he starts with another line of nonsensical question.

It seems you don't know that I almost became a Muslim and recited the shahada. It was the Qur'an itself that let me out of my confusion.

Open your eyes and stop defending the undefendable. Both the Qur'an and Hadiths are lies that need further lies to defend.

I was ready to leave my faith for Islam until undeniable facts stared me in the face. I couldn't you to manufacture lies to defend Islam nor Mohammed. Thus, my journey to asking questions both about Islam and Christianity started.

Let me ask you two question:
1. Why is it that Muslims usually deny the obvious when they read the Qur'an or the Hadiths?
2. Why is it that Muslims take the Opinions of their Scholars over that of your prophet and even Allah (depending on what suits them)?


Jesus came to be the ransom for you from the fire of hell or why do you think He came to the world?
Do you think I can be a good ransom for you (as a Christian) from the fire of hell?

TenQ:

It seems you don't know that I almost became a Muslim and recited the shahada. It was the Qur'an itself that let me out of my confusion.

Open your eyes and stop defending the undefendable. Both the Qur'an and Hadiths are lies that need further lies to defend.

I was ready to leave my faith for Islam until undeniable facts stared me in the face. I couldn't you to manufacture lies to defend Islam nor Mohammed. Thus, my journey to asking questions both about Islam and Christianity started.

Let me ask you two question:
1. Why is it that Muslims usually deny the obvious when they read the Qur'an or the Hadiths?
2. Why is it that Muslims take the Opinions of their Scholars over that of your prophet and even Allah (depending on what suits them)?


Jesus came to be the ransom for you from the fire of hell or why do you think He came to the world?
Do you think I can be a good ransom for you (as a Christian) from the fire of hell?

Your entire message reeks of arrogance cloaked in selective ignorance. You claim to have been “almost Muslim,” yet your arguments betray a shallow, cherry-picked engagement with Islamic texts—driven not by a pursuit of truth, but a desire to confirm your bias.

You claim “the Qur’an itself let you out of confusion,” yet ironically it that it’s only after reading it that you became confused. That’s not clarity—that’s internal contradiction. You speak of “undeniable facts,” but conveniently fail to cite a single one. Why? Because vague accusations are easier to throw than actual substance.

Now to your two questions:

1. Why do Muslims "deny the obvious"?
Perhaps the real question is why people like you think your interpretation—often removed from context, linguistics, and scholarship—should override centuries of deeper, more informed understanding. The “obvious” isn’t always what you want it to be. You read verses without context, historical background, or even basic Arabic comprehension, then call Muslims liars when they don’t agree with your surface-level conclusions. That’s not seeking truth; that’s intellectual laziness.

2. Why do Muslims refer to scholars?
Do you visit a doctor when you're ill or self-diagnose from Google? Scholars exist for a reason—to preserve nuance, expertise, and rigor. Islam is a complete system with legal, spiritual, and moral dimensions. If you think your personal opinion supersedes a thousand years of intellectual tradition, that's not a critique of Islam—it's a reflection of your ego.

As for Jesus: You talk about Him being a ransom, yet ignore His own words where He submitted to God (John 17:3), called God greater than Himself (John 14:28), and prayed to the One True God (Luke 22:42). Your version of Christianity hinges on Paul’s theology, not Christ’s actual teachings. Don’t project your distorted doctrine as if it’s divine truth.

You want to talk about lies? Start by addressing your own selective reading, misrepresentation, and smug self-certainty. Your so-called “journey to asking questions” sounds more like a crusade to justify walking away from what you never truly understood to begin with.

gohf:
I wish you are on clubhouse. I wonder what creativeorbit and Antichristian answers to these questions are

It is undeniable that Allah is neither Omnipresent, Omnipotent nor Omniscient. All these are consequences of their Taoheed.

CreativeOrbit:
Your entire message reeks of arrogance cloaked in selective ignorance. You claim to have been “almost Muslim,” yet your arguments betray a shallow, cherry-picked engagement with Islamic texts—driven not by a pursuit of truth, but a desire to confirm your bias.

You claim “the Qur’an itself let you out of confusion,” yet ironically it that it’s only after reading it that you became confused. That’s not clarity—that’s internal contradiction. You speak of “undeniable facts,” but conveniently fail to cite a single one. Why? Because vague accusations are easier to throw than actual substance.

1. Is it untrue Allah reported that Dhul-Qarnayn found the sun setting in a pool of hot muddy waters
2. Is it untrue that Allah says that Jesus was neither crucified nor killed?
3. Is it untrue that Allah condemned those who take their monks and rabbis as Lords instead of Allah AND the Messiah?
4. Is it untrue that Allah mixed up Mariam the sister of Moses and Aaron with Mary the mother of Jesus
5. Is it untrue that Allah doesn't know the pronunciation of Abraham's name in the Qur'an?
ابرهَم (Ibrāham) Qur'an 2:124-260 or ابراهيم (Ibrāhīm) eg Qur’an 14:1,2,14
6. If the Qur'an is explained in detail, who is the person called Israel?


You will need some long grammar to resolve each of these questions.

CreativeOrbit:

Now to your two questions:

1. Why do Muslims "deny the obvious"?
Perhaps the real question is why people like you think your interpretation—often removed from context, linguistics, and scholarship—should override centuries of deeper, more informed understanding. The “obvious” isn’t always what you want it to be. You read verses without context, historical background, or even basic Arabic comprehension, then call Muslims liars when they don’t agree with your surface-level conclusions. That’s not seeking truth; that’s intellectual laziness.

1. According to Qur'an 19:71-72, will ALL Muslims at least temporarily enter the fire of hell?
2. According to Qur’an 9:31, are people expected to take Allah and the Messiah as Lords rather than their Rabbis and Monks?

Let's see how you will deny Allah for the false interpretation of your scholars

CreativeOrbit:

2. Why do Muslims refer to scholars?
Do you visit a doctor when you're ill or self-diagnose from Google? Scholars exist for a reason—to preserve nuance, expertise, and rigor. Islam is a complete system with legal, spiritual, and moral dimensions. If you think your personal opinion supersedes a thousand years of intellectual tradition, that's not a critique of Islam—it's a reflection of your ego.

1. Allah says you should do Halal Prostitution Mutah Qur'an 4:24, Mohammed and Later Uthman abrogated it.
2. Allah says you can marry and divorce pre-pubescent girls in Qur'an 65:4. But, you don't do that now. Do you? No!
3. Did Allah abrogate Qur'an 24:2?
4. Who removed Allah's revelation of breastfeeding an adult man ten times which Allah reduced to five times from the Qur'an?

These are just examples where you reject the words of Allah for the opinion of men.

CreativeOrbit:

As for Jesus: You talk about Him being a ransom, yet ignore His own words where He submitted to God (John 17:3), called God greater than Himself (John 14:28), and prayed to the One True God (Luke 22:42). Your version of Christianity hinges on Paul’s theology, not Christ’s actual teachings. Don’t project your distorted doctrine as if it’s divine truth.

John 17:1-5:
"These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you: As you have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do. And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was."
1. Is Allah a Father in any sense? If not, Jesus isn't speaking about Allah!
2. Is it true that The same verse says Jesus will give ETERNAL life to those His Father has given Him?
3. Is it true that Jesus was before the world existed?

So, read to comprehend.

John 14:28:
"You have heard how I said to you, I go away, and come again to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go to the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
Of course, the Father is greater than Jesus BECAUSE Jesus humbled Himself, coming in the form of a Servant.

Phil 2:5-8:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even the death of the cross."

So, if Jesus could be hungry, and feel pain, and be bounded, he is certainly lower than His Father

Common sense should tell you that of necessity, the Father must be great that his Son.

You accuse Paul while forgetting that Qur'an 36:13-14 says that Jesus sent His messages who were rejected, then a third was sent as reinforcement. Your islamic early commentators like Ibn ‘Abbas, Ka‘b al-Ahbar, and Wahb bin Munabbih identified the city as Antioch, ruled by a king named Antiochus, an idol-worshipper and the names of the messengers are Sham‘un (Peter), Yuhanna (John), and Bulus (Paul).

Deny this again!

CreativeOrbit:

You want to talk about lies? Start by addressing your own selective reading, misrepresentation, and smug self-certainty. Your so-called “journey to asking questions” sounds more like a crusade to justify walking away from what you never truly understood to begin with.

Unfortunately, it is you Muslims that tell the multi-cascade of lies.

It is you who need to ask questions because the questions will lead you to Jesus who would be the ransom for you on the day of judgment.

Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: 'This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'

Why would Allah use a Christian or a Jew as ransom for you?

AntiChristian:
Of course it's nromal for a Muslim to get irritated seeing a non-Muslim eating during the month Ramadan! The way we hope to be itted to Paradise is what we wish for our neighbors too. And in Muslims countries states, the law is Shariah and no stone must be unturned to make the Shariah prevail. Eating in public in Muslim regions is like mocking those fasting! Even Muslims that are permitted NOT to fast too shouldn't eat in public!

Now judging by your response, you guys are making it mandatory for everyone to fast. Why should there be compulsion in religion.

I don't really know where this happened, i mean where Islamic law is forced on indigenes by immigrants. Usually the Islamic law is used by the immigrants and among themselves. But ultimately we want the same paradise for the locals.

Go look at what is happening in UK and other European countries that accepted migrant Muslims. Infact it's because of the Muslims that UK indigenes are clamouring for migrants to be deported.

[/quote]

What does speaking up do? What is appropriate is to educate ourselves particularly our kids in the best way! And what you call "Lots of Muslims" are still minute in percentages of Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims are silent on the actions of terrorist who commit crime against humanity using the name of Islam...

Since the reputation of your religion is at stake, the out cry against such should have been high to dissociate islam from terrorism. But no... Majority are just silent.

ECOWAS can't influence Islam. Even ECOWAS can't influence a miliatary state like Burkina Faso, Republic of Niger and co. Blasphemy laws are well established in Islam and only a Shariah court judge could make the final pronouncement in its case!

Am trying to understand why should there be a death penalty on someone for insulting your prophet.

When we ask, you all will say that it's not in your holy book, that those doing it don't follow the teachings.

But the body language of virtually all Muslims s death penalty for insults of your prophet.

TenQ:

You know that I always back up any claim with your own religious sources.

Your prophet is the one interpreting your religion but you reject it for your own whimsy opinions

Of what value is a backup that is misunderstood? Tell me do you really know what you talk about? Maybe if you did you will say a lot less. You the saying about devoid vessels?

TenQ:

Is this a literal statement that Allah's face would burn all his creations or allegorical statement.

You choose to forget that in Exodus 33:20, God explicitly states to Moses, "You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.?

Isaiah 59:2 states, But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear

So God's essence remains veiled.

TenQ:

Because it has implications.
If truely Mohammed went to the LOCATION where Allah is and spoke to him behind the veil, THEN Allah is surely NOT Omnipresent

Moses pbuh spoke with God so tell did he see God to speak with him?

The importance of this discussion amongst other things. This setting creates a truly unique backdrop for the Prophet Muhammad's pbuh's direct dialogue with Allah, highlighting a spiritual elevation that goes beyond the limits of our earthly existence. It's important to understand that this divine communication doesn't limit Allah's presence; instead, it strengthens the belief in His eternal and all-encoming essence.

honesttalk21:


Of what value is a backup that is misunderstood? Tell me do you really know what you talk about? Maybe if you did you will say a lot less. You the saying about devoid vessels?

Simple English from translations done by your scholars and you still complain of misunderstanding!? I certainly understand what I talk about, it is you who is embarrassed about the implications enough to desire a reinterpretation.

honesttalk21:

You choose to forget that in Exodus 33:20, God explicitly states to Moses, "You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.?

Isaiah 59:2 states, But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear

So God's essence remains veiled.

Can the God of the Jews and Christians make himself seen by men while at the same time in Heaven on His Throne?
Yes!
Can Allah of the Muslims come to the earth and be seen? Can Allah enter his creations?
No!

Then we are not seeing the same thing. Btw Isaiah 59:2 is not literal!

honesttalk21:

Moses pbuh spoke with God so tell did he see God to speak with him?

The importance of this discussion amongst other things. This setting creates a truly unique backdrop for the Prophet Muhammad's pbuh's direct dialogue with Allah, highlighting a spiritual elevation that goes beyond the limits of our earthly existence. It's important to understand that this divine communication doesn't limit Allah's presence; instead, it strengthens the belief in His eternal and all-encoming essence.

Moses wanted to see God in His glory, but this is impossible. Mohammed was copying the Jews without understanding that the God of the Jews and Christians can make Himself visible on earth while still being in heaven on His Throne.

Did Abraham in the Bible see God on earth?
Yes!
Did Jacob see God here on earth?
Yes!

No one can see God in His full glory.

Mohammed went to a LOCATION to see Allah who spoken to him behind the veil. If Allah is in a location, then Allah cannot be Omnipresent

Is Al-Firdaus Al-'Ala inside paradise or above paradise?
Another evidence that Allah is NOT Omnipresent!

TenQ:

Simple English from translations done by your scholars and you still complain of misunderstanding!? I certainly understand what I talk about, it is you who is embarrassed about the implications enough to desire a reinterpretation.


Can the God of the Jews and Christians make himself seen by men while at the same time in Heaven on His Throne?
Yes!
Can Allah of the Muslims come to the earth and be seen? Can Allah enter his creations?
No!

Then we are not seeing the same thing. Btw Isaiah 59:2 is not literal!




Moses wanted to see God in His glory, but this is impossible. Mohammed was copying the Jews without understanding that the God of the Jews and Christians can make Himself visible on earth while still being in heaven on His Throne.

Did Abraham in the Bible see God on earth?
Yes!
Did Jacob see God here on earth?
Yes!

No one can see God in His full glory.

Mohammed went to a LOCATION to see Allah who spoken to him behind the veil. If Allah is in a location, then Allah cannot be Omnipresent

Is Al-Firdaus Al-'Ala inside paradise or above paradise?
Another evidence that Allah is NOT Omnipresent!

As earlier noted you don't understand anything you make noise about. Indeed We English may be simple yet many times there are deeper meanings or metaphors to what is said or written.

Yes a crazy narrative in your scripture where Jacob saw God and wrestled this divine and actually beat the God up. Some powerful God indeed.

Jacob named the place Peniel
because he saw God face to face, and yet his life was spared. Exact contradiction of Exodus isn't it? Should we look for more?

TenQ:


Tell us the relationship of Adam's height to Allah's attributes
AND
Tell us the relationship of Adam's Face to Allah's attributes

Why did your prophet emphasized Adam's Face and Height?

2. Mohammed said that Allah created Adam in his image and then goes on to describe Adams image in the physical of face and height.
Can you thus explain in clear how Adam is created in Allah's image?

Allah isn't in anyway like just a physical being.
Allah goes beyond space, time, form, and dimension. He is the Creator of all these things, which are separate from Him. This idea is central to understanding Allah's transcendence and uniqueness.

The Qur’an and Sunnah describe Allah's attributes in a way that honors His greatness, but they don’t try to pin down His "size," "height," or "form" in any measurable way. So, why is that?

Height implies physicality — being tall or short only applies to beings that occupy space. But Allah is:

As-Samad
"Allah, the Self-Sufficient, the Eternal Refuge." (Surah al-Ikhlāṣ 112:2)

Ādam was created with an impressive height of 60 cubits, symbolizing his significant role as the first human.