NewStats: 3,259,752 , 8,170,804 topics. Date: Sunday, 25 May 2025 at 09:52 PM 3d5163

Nachmonides:


God's will is that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.

He is going to ensure you learn, because his will is that you are saved and that you learn.

your bolded let's read it shall we

1Tim.2.3 - This is good and pleases God our Savior,
1Tim.2.4 - for he wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
1Tim.2.5 - For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus.


Yet you speak against this very word and irrespective of your mistakes and errors you refuse to change. God may desire a man's salvation but if such a man rejects it, then destruction is at work within him.

gohf:


If I did not explain this clearly then let God the Father be displeased with me but if I have and you refused to listen then let God hold you to it.

You will not have an excuse when you are called to the words you have written

The word of God says try every spirit, on the other God would hold you responsible for turning people away from the truth.

SIRTee15:


Good, that means they are not beings.
So that automatically disqualify the notion of 3 gods.
God is one existence, one being not 3.

Next question

Does the bible depicts the spirit of God as a person or just a substance
Does the bible depicts the word of God as a person or just a substance.

Knowing that being a person doesn't necessarily mean "physical", but having a personality, and relational attributes.

The Bible portrays the Spirit of God as a person with will, intellect, and emotions, playing an active role in creation, guidance, and redemption.


The Bible portrays the Word as both a person (Jesus Christ, the eternal Logos) and God’s message to humanity.

Steep:
The word of God says try every spirit, on the other God would hold you responsible for turning people away from the truth.

People like to associate God with threats more than love.

Even Christians, leave that brother alone.
He's zealous. Let him study more.

DaddyCoool:


gohf there can be ONLY one reason this can be so - Christ is equally God worthy of worship, though NOT the Father, AND the usually jealous Father is not at all jealous of him being worshipped BECAUSE he sees him as part of himself, a continuation of himself!

the reasoning is only from your own mind, which you have yet to completely submit to God.

Let's not speak of God being jealous for as simple as it may seem it may well be beyond you.

From whom do you think creation comes from, from where was it "bara" from.


I see it this way that those who see Jesus as equal to God fail to follow the example of Jesus in submission, for until to see Christ for who he is, without a veil, will the true spirit of submission be at work in you. That is the power of the gospel

gohf:
your bolded let's read it shall we

1Tim.2.3 - This is good and pleases God our Savior,
1Tim.2.4 - for he wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
1Tim.2.5 - For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus.


Yet you speak against this very word and irrespective of your mistakes and errors you refuse to change. God may desire a man's salvation but if such a man rejects it, then destruction is at work within him.

I have nothing more to say to you.

I have told you severally that I don't serve 3 Gods, I don't believe in 3 Gods.
Go and study the scriptures better and honestly.

Nachmonides:



People like to associate God with threats more than love.

Even Christians, leave that brother alone.
He's zealous. Let him study more.

She is a false teacher and false prophet.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
I pray God brings her out of the darkness she is in.

DaddyCoool:


Oh, my question is quite clear. Here it is again:
WHY is the Father sacrificing at all when He could simply forgive without any self-sacrifice? It would make sense if there were another entity involved that required sacrifice to be appeased

Ok, your question bothers around dynamics of forgiveness by God.
Why can't God just forgive instead of going thru the process of self sacrifice?


Is this your query? I want to be clear b4 I answer.

gohf:
the reasoning is only from your own mind, which you have yet to completely submit to God.

Let's not speak of God being jealous for as simple as it may seem it may well be beyond you.

From whom do you think creation comes from, from where was it "bara" from.


I see it this way that those who see Jesus as equal to God fail to follow the example of Jesus in submission, for until to see Christ for who he is, without a veil, will the true spirit of submission be at work in you. That is the power of the gospel

confused one, God said he is a jealous God.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Confused gohf,
Paul said the fulness of Godhood dwells in christ.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Greek interlinear of Godhead in col 2:9 is theotetoes meaning deity or Godhood.
Jesus is literally God, same God with the father.
People have tried to correct you here but you continue in heresy.


Proverbs 29:1 He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

Nachmonides:


I have nothing more to say to you.

I have told you severally that I don't serve 3 Gods, I don't believe in 3 Gods.
Go and study the scriptures better and honestly.

but you believe God is 3 different persons whileas God doesn't not change, He is YHVH

Steep:
confused one, God said he is a jealous God.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Confused

in your pride you answered what you were never asked

And who more is confused than you who thinks contrary and opposite of what he has read.

gohf:
but you believe God is 3 different persons whileas God doesn't not change, He is YHVH

I see the problem.

You are having a hard time comprehending one "What" (Essence) and three "Who's" (Persons)

Yes, this logic still maintains that God is YAHWEH or the Tetragrammaton YHWH or YHVH. And that God is one; singular.

gohf:
but you believe God is 3 different persons whileas God doesn't not change, He is YHVH

take away pride from you and learn, repent and cry to God to have mercy on you. Pride goes before a fall.

Nachmonides:


I see the problem.

You are having a hard time comprehending one "What" (Essence) and three "Who's" (Persons)

Yes, this logic still maintains that God is YAHWEH or the Tetragrammaton YHWH or YHVH. And that God is one; singular.

you say you see yet what you see is a lie, if the light in you is darkness how great is that darkness.

I am speaking life you are writing logic

gohf:
you say you see yet what you see is a lie, if the light in you is darkness how great is that darkness.

I am speaking life you are writing logic

Yes, it's God's logic/reasoning.

Nachmonides:


Knowing that being a person doesn't necessarily mean "physical", but having a personality, and relational attributes.

The Bible portrays the Spirit of God as a person with will, intellect, and emotions, playing an active role in creation, guidance, and redemption.


The Bible portrays the Word as both a person (Jesus Christ, the eternal Logos) and God’s message to humanity.

Very good.
So U can see from the bible that the FATHER, THE WORD OF GOD AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS ONE EXISTENCE NOT 3.

AT THE SAME TIME THE BIBLE ALSO MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THE FATHER, HIS WORD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE 3 DISTINCT PERSONS.

SO WHAT WE HAVE IN THE BIBLE IS ONE GOD WITH THREE PERSONS.

ONE BEING AND THREE PERSONS.

gohf and janosky, black Jews- somvinya and hackerman, U people should allow the bible to speak. The scripture can defend itself when it comes to trinity. Both the old testament and the new testament speak boldly about the trinity.

U don't need any Nicene council or church fathers to believe in Trinity. Trinity is in the bible, only intellectually dishonest people will deny the trinity is in the bible.

If U don't want to use the term God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit, that's fine.

But simply accept and believe that There's one essence/one divinity/one being called God but manifest in 3 persons of the Father, his word and his spirit.

This is the truth from our bible. Believing anything else is rejecting the scriptures

Steep:
take away pride from you and learn, repent and cry to God to have mercy on you. Pride goes before a fall.

Father God have mercy on him, I submit to you and to you alone so that in the face of those who corrupt your word I will not be weak nor silent but the bold.

But I would be foolish to not learn from God's word and learn from you, who is your error refuse to accept what.

You attack me with no justification from God's word because I said the truth even when you do not even understand what is written.

Your ignorance is a proof of your arrogance.

SIRTee15:


Very good.
So U can see from the bible that the FATHER, THE WORD OF GOD AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS ONE EXISTENCE NOT 3.

AT THE SAME TIME THE BIBLE ALSO MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THE FATHER, HIS WORD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE 3 DISTINCT PERSONS.

SO WHAT WE HAVE IN THE BIBLE IS ONE GOD WITH THREE PERSONS.

ONE BEING AND THREE PERSONS.

gohf and janosky, black Jews- somvinya and hackerman, U people should allow the bible to speak. The scripture can defend itself when it comes to trinity. Both the old testament and the new testament speak boldly about the trinity.

U don't need any Nicene council or church fathers to believe in Trinity. Trinity is in the bible, only intellectually dishonest people will deny the trinity is in the bible.

If U don't want to use the term God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit, that's fine.

But simply accept and believe that There's one essence/one divinity/one being called God but manifest in 3 persons of the Father, his word and his spirit.

This is the truth from our bible. Believing anything else is rejecting the scriptures

They always blame the Nicaen men or the translation process for their lack of sight.

Scripture is clear.
Study to show yourself approved. That's the way, study.

gohf:
Father God have mercy on him, I submit to you and to you alone so that in the face of those who corrupt your word I will not be weak nor silent but the bold.

But I would be foolish to not learn from God's word and learn from you, who is your error refuse to accept what.

You attack me with no justification from God's word because I said the truth even when you do not even understand what is written.

Your ignorance is a proof of your arrogance.

JW's always have been like the Sanhedrins; they honour God with their lips but their hearts are far from him.

What you're typing, we see honour. God sees what we don't see.

Nachmonides, SIRTee15, Steep, gohf

FINAL WORD ON THIS TOPIC

It has been over 2 thousand years. Churches that worship Jesus Christ as God have gone from strength to strength. At Nicea the bishops prayed that God guide their deliberations and help them arrive at the right conclusion - these were people who knew the Bible better than any of us. We must assume that God was in those deliberations and therefore part of the conclusion they arrived at - which would explain why it has sustained and only gotten stronger.
Folks, these things have been debated ad infinitum by people much wiser, holier, and much more knowledgeable than us.
Bottom line:
Since YHWH has been intimately involved from beginning till now, unless we are ready to say that He doesn't exist, or no longer exists, or exists but is powerless, or exists but doesn't care, we must assume that what has triumphed is NOT something that is against His will.

DaddyCoool:
Nachmonides, SIRTee15, Steep, gohf

FINAL WORD ON THIS TOPIC

It has been over 2 thousand years. Churches that worship Jesus Christ as God have gone from strength to strength. At Nicea the bishops prayed that God guide their deliberations and help them arrive at the right conclusion - these were people who knew the Bible more than any of us. We must assume that God was in those deliberations and therefore part of the conclusion they arrived at - which would explain why it has sustained and only gotten stronger.
Folks, these things have been debated ad infinitum by people much wiser, holier, and much more knowledgeable than us.
Bottom line:
Since YHWH has been intimately involved from beginning till now, unless we are ready to say that He doesn't exist, or no longer exists, or exists but is powerless, or exists but doesn't care, we must assume that what has triumphed is NOT something that is against His will.

The history of nicea isn't that straightforward dear.
Lots of churches and Christians remained Unitarian after nicea council and rejected the trinity. Some even formed their own sects.
Part of those sects living in middle east came up with Islam.
The next emperor of Roman empire after Constantine actually rejected trinity and insisted Unitarian Christianity would be the official religion and trinitarian priests were persecuted.

Trinity didn't become mainstream until 600 years after nicene council.
As I said earlier, U do t need nicene or church fathers to believe in trinity.
Honesty and common sense is all U need to see trinity in the bible.
The scripture loudly shouts trinity.

DaddyCoool:
Nachmonides, SIRTee15, Steep, gohf

FINAL WORD ON THIS TOPIC

It has been over 2 thousand years. Churches that worship Jesus Christ as God have gone from strength to strength. At Nicea the bishops prayed that God guide their deliberations and help them arrive at the right conclusion - these were people who knew the Bible more than any of us. We must assume that God was in those deliberations and therefore part of the conclusion they arrived at - which would explain why it has sustained and only gotten stronger.
Folks, these things have been debated ad infinitum by people much wiser, holier, and much more knowledgeable than us.
Bottom line:
Since YHWH has been intimately involved from beginning till now, unless we are ready to say that He doesn't exist, or no longer exists, or exists but is powerless, or exists but doesn't care, we must assume that what has triumphed is NOT something that is against His will.

While I may not readily point to the council at nicea, which of course re-emphasized on what has being the church tradition from the apostles themselves, even latest discovery has further nailed the coffin of the argument that the deity of Jesus was a nicea decree.
The word of God the Bible is sufficient proof, anyone not content with what has being written may never be convinced.

Nachmonides:


Why would God even command for the lamb or Jesus to be worshipped at all, whether as God or whatever?

It is inconsistent with his character replete in scriptures.
His character has always been not to worship any other besides him, no other, no one else.

God had never permitted anyone to worship anything else but himself, so this would be the first time in scripture as per your inference.
This is odd.

Scriptures clearly says he will never yield his glory. Yet he's permitting his creation to worship Jesus.

you say, "It is inconsistent with his character replete in scriptures." As though you know the character of God, well if you did wouldn't you actually know the scripture than you random claim of doing so.

Ps.2.11 - Serve the LORD with reverent fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Ps.2.12 - Submit to God's royal son, or he will become angry, and you will be destroyed in the midst of your pursuits--for his anger can flare up in an instant. But what joy for all who find protection in him!

Even David was bowed to as one representating the son of God, who will seat upon the throne of David
Then David said to the whole assembly, ‘Praise the LORD your God.’ So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king." 1 Chronicles 29:20

And here is a prophecy
In that day,’ declares the LORD Almighty, ‘I will break the yoke off their necks and will tear off their bonds; no longer will foreigners enslave them. Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.’" Jeremiah 30:8-9

But how will you who doesn't understand the gospel and revelations that is revealed understand scripture that speaks in shadows

For God said I will make him a king not a god
Ps.89.27 Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

Even if I quote anymore will you accept it, when I asked you what is worship you never answered.

If you keep rejecting the truth, will the truth accept you

Steep:
While I may not readily point to the council at nicea, which of course re-emphasized on what has being the church tradition from the apostles themselves, even latest discovery has further nailed the coffin of the argument that the deity of Jesus was a nicea decree.
The word of God the Bible is sufficient proof, anyone not content with what has being written may never be convinced.

you can't find Jesus is God from the apostles but you would have to go to the traditions that nachmonides fails to it nor answer whenever I mention the gnostics.

The nicea decrea? You have failed using the Bible now to want to venture into another gray area, would you flee again once light is poured there?

DaddyCoool:
Nachmonides, SIRTee15, Steep, gohf

FINAL WORD ON THIS TOPIC

It has been over 2 thousand years. Churches that worship Jesus Christ as God have gone from strength to strength. At Nicea the bishops prayed that God guide their deliberations and help them arrive at the right conclusion - these were people who knew the Bible better than any of us. We must assume that God was in those deliberations and therefore part of the conclusion they arrived at - which would explain why it has sustained and only gotten stronger.
Folks, these things have been debated ad infinitum by people much wiser, holier, and much more knowledgeable than us.
Bottom line:
Since YHWH has been intimately involved from beginning till now, unless we are ready to say that He doesn't exist, or no longer exists, or exists but is powerless, or exists but doesn't care, we must assume that what has triumphed is NOT something that is against His will.

Is it not a pity that you left God's word for this?

gohf:
you say, "It is inconsistent with his character replete in scriptures." As though you know the character of God, well if you did wouldn't you actually know the scripture than you random claim of doing so.

Ps.2.11 - Serve the LORD with reverent fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Ps.2.12 - Submit to God's royal son, or he will become angry, and you will be destroyed in the midst of your pursuits--for his anger can flare up in an instant. But what joy for all who find protection in him!

Even David was bowed to as one representating the son of God, who will seat upon the throne of David
Then David said to the whole assembly, ‘Praise the LORD your God.’ So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king." 1 Chronicles 29:20

And here is a prophecy
In that day,’ declares the LORD Almighty, ‘I will break the yoke off their necks and will tear off their bonds; no longer will foreigners enslave them. Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.’" Jeremiah 30:8-9

But how will you who doesn't understand the gospel and revelations that is revealed understand scripture that speaks in shadows

For God said I will make him a king not a god
Ps.89.27 Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

Even if I quote anymore will you accept it, when I asked you what is worship you never answered.

If you keep rejecting the truth, will the truth accept you

You are tiring.

There are so many inaccuracies in your conclusions here.

Please don't quote again, go away. You win.

Nachmonides:


JW's always have been like the Sanhedrins; they honour God with their lips but their hearts are far from him.

What you're typing, we see honour. God sees what we don't see.

it's your business if you label and attack others, but that should not be your excuse for rejecting the truth

SIRTee15:


The history of nicea isn't that straightforward dear.
Lots of churches and Christians remained Unitarian after nicea council and rejected the trinity. Some even formed their own sects.
Part of those sects living in middle east came up with Islam.
The next emperor of Roman empire after Constantine actually rejected trinity and insisted Unitarian Christianity would be the official religion and trinitarian priests were persecuted.

Trinity didn't become mainstream until 600 years after nicene council.
As I said earlier, U do t need nicene or church fathers to believe in trinity.
Honesty and common sense is all U need to see trinity in the bible.
The scripture loudly shouts trinity.

Bottom line: after all the ups and downs, what ultimately triumphed?? Whatever that is is usually the will of God. That's how God usually works. It may at first seem like the wrong thing is winning, but ultimately, the will of God prevails.
Even durring Christ's time there were dozens of messiahs and he told them to watch who lasts.

gohf:

Is it not a pity that you left God's word for this?

What exactly is God's word and how are you sure what is God's word?

Nachmonides:


You are tiring.

There are so many inaccuracies in your conclusions here.

Please don't quote again, go away. You win.

go away, I was never here for you.

You showed from the beginning you were stubborn to the truth, you avoided it, you ran from it. Did you think I spent time going through the Bible to bring those verses out just for you.


Others will read this and it will be a record that the truth was shared and some believe and some rejected it.

But baselessly as from the beginning you have only accused what is written as being inaccurate and so please do not think it was written just for you.

Just as there are vessels made unto honor and those not so, I used your errors to teach the truth.

SIRTee15:


Ok, your question bothers around dynamics of forgiveness by God.
Why can't God just forgive instead of going thru the process of self sacrifice?


Is this your query? I want to be clear b4 I answer.

Of course it is my question.
Why sacrifice?

gohf:
go away, I was never here for you.

You showed from the beginning you were stubborn to the truth, you avoided it, you ran from it. Did you think I spent time going through the Bible to bring those verses out just for you.


Others will read this and it will be a record that the truth was shared and some believe and some rejected it.

But baselessly as from the beginning you have only accused what is written as being inaccurate and so please do not think it was written just for you.

Just as there are vessels made unto honor and those not so, I used your errors to teach the truth.

Constant inaccuracies, that's what you bring up.

That, I don't want to see.