NewStats: 3,259,559 , 8,170,507 topics. Date: Sunday, 25 May 2025 at 03:16 PM 6w534w

gohf:
so Jesus is not fully God but a partial some knowing God?

Even when all revelation has been given to him and through him!

The Trinity is fully God in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit because they're always together. They're One.

gohf:
oh is it because of that that people made up the whole Jesus is God, God came himself to die to enlight an emotional response from him. That's deceptive and manipulative.

God doesn't hate human sacrifice, he hates murder. Offer your bodies as living sacrifice to God. Sacrifice is service, giving your life for God's purpose, martyrs.

It's appointed every man to die, Jesus becoming a man was going to die or do you think God sent a God to die.

Listen do you understand what John wrote
1John.4.2 By this you may know (perceive and recognize) the Spirit of God: every spirit which acknowledges and confesses [the fact] that Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [actually] has become man and has come in the flesh is of God [has God for its source]; (AMP)
1John.4.3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (NKJV)


Ask yourself where does your doctrine, teaching and believe where does it come from?

First let's clarify one thing God hates human sacrifice

Leviticus 18
21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

God who banned Israelites from sacrificing their sons would not then offer his own son as sacrifice for any reason whatsoever
That's a contradiction.

2. The book of John makes it clear Jesus is God.

John 1
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

So the 1 John age U quoted is within above context

3. I never said Father came down and died for our sin, neither did I say God died because it's impossible for God to die.

I said the Father put his divinity in a prepared body. So that's not human sacrifice but self sacrifice.
Jesus is human nature + divine nature.
At his death, the divinity separated from his human nature. The divine nature didn't die

DaddyCoool:


#bolded, WRONG! I corrected you first - before Steep even posted anything on this thread:

https://nairaland.unblockandhide.com/8308121/ot-verse-strongly-proves-jesus#133568561

Okay, I appreciate your correction.

gohf:

The Greek eimi means I exist and can also be used to mean I was. So you are wrong

All translations, translated it "I am", so you're wrong.

DaddyCoool:




All these long theses and epistles!
Christ simply said He did not know the time, that only the Father knew. Elsewhere He said He only said what the Father TAUGHT him. He never said He already knew everything the Father knew but decided not to know so that the Father would then teach Him!

He knows Everything in the Father and not in Himself.

Nachmonides:



It's difficult (not impossible) to comprehend the idea of the trinity.

Absolutely correct.

Humans can only understand what they can relate with by experience. God is nothing like what we have ever experienced as humans, so understanding God can be difficult but not impossible. Another problem arises when you come to understand a little about God - you don't have the accurate human vocabulary or grammar to describe Him.

gohf:

I do need to read more of God's word and not books and fairly tales and fables of men

But instead of boasting and in your pride call God a liar

Read
2Chr.30.12 Also in Judah the hand of God was to give them one heart to do the commandment of the king and of the princes, by the word of the LORD.

Ezra.8.18 And by the good hand of our God upon us they brought us a man of understanding, of the sons of Mahli, the son of Levi, the son of Israel; and Sherebiah, with his sons and his brethren, eighteen;

Isa.62.3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

1Pet.5.6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

Acts.7.55 - But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Rom.8.34 - Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Col.3.1 - If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Heb.10.12 - But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb.10.31 - It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
1Pet.3.22 - Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Ezek.8.1 - And it came to in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
Mark.16.19 - So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.


Job.27.11 - I will teach you by the hand of God: that which is with the Almighty will I not conceal.
Eccl.9.1 - For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.

Ok, since God has a right hand, what about his left hand. Who seated on his left hand.

I asked U a question earlier but U refused to answer.
What does it mean to be seated on the right hand of God according to Jewish tradition

GothamCities:


All translations, translated it "I am", so you're wrong.

wrong that eimi means present, exist,

Before Abraham was I existed, I was present before Abraham was

John.8.58 Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!" (NLT)

John.8.58 "Believe me," said Jesus, "I am who I am long before Abraham was anything." (MSB)


But here you are claiming that Jesus was claiming to be God before Abraham


This was the conversation that was occuring
John.8.54 - Jesus answered, "If I am merely boasting about myself, it doesn't count. But it is my Father who says these glorious things about me. You say, 'He is our God,'
John.8.55 - but you do not even know him. I know him. If I said otherwise, I would be as great a liar as you! But it is true--I know him and obey him.
John.8.56 - Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."

You did comprehension while in school

This was what Jesus said that brought about the whole Abraham talk

John.8.51 - I assure you, anyone who obeys my teaching will never die!"

And they responded
John.8.52 - The people said, "Now we know you are possessed by a demon. Even Abraham and the prophets died, but you say that those who obey your teaching will never die!
John.8.53 - Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? Are you greater than the prophets, who died? Who do you think you are?"


Are you greater than Abraham

And Jesus answered I was even before Abraham

The writer(s) of Hebrews who associated Jesus with Melchizedek and not God, wrote that the greater blesses the lesser

Even you don't understand what Jesus said, ask the Holy Spirit to help you

John.8.56 - Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."

gohf:
wrong that eimi means present, exist,

Before Abraham was I existed, I was present before Abraham was

John.8.58 Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!" (NLT)

John.8.58 "Believe me," said Jesus, "I am who I am long before Abraham was anything." (MSB)


But here you are claiming that Jesus was claiming to be God before Abraham


This was the conversation that was occuring
John.8.54 - Jesus answered, "If I am merely boasting about myself, it doesn't count. But it is my Father who says these glorious things about me. You say, 'He is our God,'
John.8.55 - but you do not even know him. I know him. If I said otherwise, I would be as great a liar as you! But it is true--I know him and obey him.
John.8.56 - Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."

You did comprehension while in school

This was what Jesus said that brought about the whole Abraham talk

John.8.51 - I assure you, anyone who obeys my teaching will never die!"

And they responded
John.8.52 - The people said, "Now we know you are possessed by a demon. Even Abraham and the prophets died, but you say that those who obey your teaching will never die!
John.8.53 - Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? Are you greater than the prophets, who died? Who do you think you are?"


Are you greater than Abraham

And Jesus answered I was even before Abraham

The writer(s) of Hebrews who associated Jesus with Melchizedek and not God, wrote that the greater blesses the lesser

Even you don't understand what Jesus said, ask the Holy Spirit to help you

John.8.56 - Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."

That verse has the right to be translated as "Before Abraham was, I am." Yes or no? By virtue of Micah 5:2, Jesus was I'm existence at a time in past with no beginning.

SIRTee15:

Ok, since God has a right hand, what about his left hand. Who seated on his left hand.

I asked U a question earlier but U refused to answer.
What does it mean to be seated on the right hand of God according to Jewish tradition

according to the picture you posted a part from the part you highlighted which is absolutely nonsense

When a king honors a person by putting him at his right hand, giving him honor and status, it doesn't mean that person becomes the king or replaces the king. That person is still under the king and example is Joseph when he was honored by Pharaoh.

Isn't it dumb or don't you consider it stupid for one to think that because Eph.2.6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ, and we are seated with him in the heavenly realms--all because we are one with Christ Jesus. (ALL)

Because we are seated with Christ we are equal to him and as such we should also receive worship as well?

Are if Christ is god because he is seated beside God then we too are gods because we are also seated with him?!

GothamCities:


That verse has the right to be translated as "Before Abraham was, I am." Yes or no? By virtue of Micah 5:2, Jesus was I'm existence at a time in past with no beginning.

🤣🤣
Don't try and comfort yourself take correction and let the Holy Spirit comfort you

No matter how you want to deceive yourself it is written

Mic.5.4 And he will stand to lead his flock with the LORD's strength, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. Then his people will live there undisturbed, for he will be highly honored all around the world. (NLT)
Mic.5.4 And He shall stand and feed His flock In the strength of the LORD, In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God; And they shall abide, For now He shall be great To the ends of the earth; (NKJV)


The scripture was written for even the simple to gain understanding from and for the humble to become wise with.

GothamCities:


Okay, I appreciate your correction.

You quite welcome. And I appreciate your Christ-like-ness about it. That's what Christianity is all about. NOT some arcane debate as to whether He knew everything. What the heck do we know about the true characteristics of God? Is it not US that decided what should be the qualities of God??

SIRTee15:



First let's clarify one thing God hates human sacrifice

Leviticus 18
21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

God who banned Israelites from sacrificing their sons would not then offer his own son as sacrifice for any reason whatsoever
That's a contradiction.

2. The book of John makes it clear Jesus is God.

John 1
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

So the 1 John age U quoted is within above context

3. I never said Father came down and died for our sin, neither did I say God died because it's impossible for God to die.

I said the Father put his divinity in a prepared body. So that's not human sacrifice but self sacrifice.
Jesus is human nature + divine nature.
At his death, the divinity separated from his human nature. The divine nature didn't die

You read what was written and you still do not understand it

Leviticus 18
21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

This here is murder not sacrifice.

Jesus is the son of man, promised from Jesus and is the son of God sent from God.

Do you think God sent Jesus to die

John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.


But becoming a man means he was going to die because of the wickedness of men. Did God send his son so that we kill him? Or so that we believe him and obey him?

Jesus said
Matt.21.37 - "Finally, the owner sent his son, thinking, 'Surely they will respect my son.'
Matt.21.38 - "But when the farmers saw his son coming, they said to one another, 'Here comes the heir to this estate. Come on, let's kill him and get the estate for ourselves!'
Matt.21.39 - So they grabbed him, took him out of the vineyard, and murdered him.
Matt.21.40 - "When the owner of the vineyard returns," Jesus asked, "what do you think he will do to those farmers?"
Matt.21.41 - The religious leaders replied, "He will put the wicked men to a horrible death and lease the vineyard to others who will give him his share of the crop after each harvest."
Matt.21.42 - Then Jesus asked them, "Didn't you ever read this in the Scriptures? 'The stone rejected by the builders has now become the cornerstone. This is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous to see.'


The prophecy of Christ's death was the expectation of the wickedness of men, when Peter preached in Acts did he say, God killed his son?


Yet when I told you that God doesn't hate human sacrifice but he hates murder did you not understand what I meant or did you pretend not to understand?

Did you not read
Mark.10.45 For even I, the Son of Man, came here not to be served but to serve others, and to give my life as a ransom for many."


Of course God sent him knowing he is going to die, because like Hebrews wrote
Heb.2.14 Because God's children are human beings--made of flesh and blood--Jesus also became flesh and blood by being born in human form. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the Devil, who had the power of death.

Because where the battlefield is, is where death is, for Jesus to overcome death for us.

So the death of Jesus because of his resurrection became a gift to us and not a loss of life.

God who banned the Israelites from murder an idolatry told Abraham to sacrifice his son and gave his son back to Abraham to reveal what would happen and so Abraham so the day when God provided a lamb for himself, a living sacrifice.

For God is the God of the living.

John.1.18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)

Now let's leave this translations a bit and look at the writing in Greek monogenesis theos, meaning one begotten of God, but some translated it as the only begotten God. Turning theos to theon

So assume yourself to be more educated than I am, so you should understand what I have just written.


Based on this understanding John the apostle quotes John the Baptist who said
John.1.29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!


Behold God? No, Behold the Lamb of God.


You not saying the Father God came down is because you believe there are two Gods, then you saying that God put his divinity into a body doesn't make that body to be God does it?


John said test the spirit Jesus came in the flesh.

Not flesh and spirit. Flesh for his flesh is from God, his flesh is the word of God that became flesh and the word of God is spirit and life, so Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life and the life was in God, the life that gives light to men and that light John the Baptist born witness to.

If you can hear my words and believe them it is because you are of God and the Spirit of God is in you, testifying that Jesus is the son of God.

GothamCities:


The devil had a beginning. He didn't come from everlasting. It's he Bible that said Jesus came from Everlasting. Not me.

but it is you that refused to answer my questions and it is you that assumed that because Jesus came from everlasting that he is God, so answer are all things that come from everlasting gods?

It's a simple question, or are you saying nothing else came from everlasting

Because we know that God created the heavens and the earth and let me give you a hand 😊, God called forth light from where?

GothamCities:


The Trinity is fully God in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit because they're always together. They're One.

always together? Yet the Holy Spirit was sent to us?

Do you understand that when John wrote they are one, he didn't mean in the same place nor did he mean they are one person, he was referring to being witnesses that agree together and testify about the same thing without disagreement but in agreement.

GothamCities:

He knows Everything in the Father and not in Himself.

??
Another semantic contortion.
Bottom line: at the point he said he did not know, he indeed did not know.

And who decided God must know everything? Is it not US??

gohf:
but it is you that refused to answer my questions and it is you that assumed that because Jesus came from everlasting that he is God, so answer are all things that come from everlasting gods?

It's a simple question, or are you saying nothing else came from everlasting

Because we know that God created the heavens and the earth and let me give you a hand 😊, God called forth light from where?

YES, anyone that "came from everlasting" (that has always existed) is God

gohf:
according to the picture you posted a part from the part you highlighted which is absolutely nonsense

When a king honors a person by putting him at his right hand, giving him honor and status, it doesn't mean that person becomes the king or replaces the king. That person is still under the king and example is Joseph when he was honored by Pharaoh.

Isn't it dumb or don't you consider it stupid for one to think that because Eph.2.6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ, and we are seated with him in the heavenly realms--all because we are one with Christ Jesus. (ALL)

Because we are seated with Christ we are equal to him and as such we should also receive worship as well?

Are if Christ is god because he is seated beside God then we too are gods because we are also seated with him?!

Ok tell me, according to Jewish philosophy, what does it mean to be seated at the right hand of God?

DaddyCoool:


YES, anyone that "came from everlasting" (that has always existed) is God

He came from everlasting because he came from God

Did John not write In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was from God

Who is the beginning, God Almighty who spoke in Revelation I am the beginning and the end, and the word was from the beginning, was from God.

Mic.5.2 - But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village in Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past.
Mic.5.3 - The people of Israel will be abandoned to their enemies until the time when the woman in labor gives birth to her son. Then at last his fellow countrymen will return from exile to their own land.
Mic.5.4 - And he will stand to lead his flock with the LORD's strength, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. Then his people will live there undisturbed, for he will be highly honored all around the world.
Mic.5.5 - And he will be the source of our peace. When the Assyrians invade our land and break through our defenses, we will appoint seven rulers to watch over us, eight princes to lead us.

gohf:


He came from everlasting because he came from God

Did John not write In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was from God

Who is the beginning, God Almighty who spoke in Revelation I am the beginning and the end, and the word was from the beginning, was from God.

Mic.5.2 - But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village in Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past.
Mic.5.3 - The people of Israel will be abandoned to their enemies until the time when the woman in labor gives birth to her son. Then at last his fellow countrymen will return from exile to their own land.
Mic.5.4 - And he will stand to lead his flock with the LORD's strength, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. Then his people will live there undisturbed, for he will be highly honored all around the world.
Mic.5.5 - And he will be the source of our peace. When the Assyrians invade our land and break through our defenses, we will appoint seven rulers to watch over us, eight princes to lead us.

So there, you have your answer. And that’s why he is God

SIRTee15:


Ok tell me, according to Jewish philosophy, what does it mean to be seated at the right hand of God?

for us and to us it means, our focus should be to obey God by listening and following Jesus who obeyed God and was glorified by God

Col.3.1 - Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits at God's right hand in the place of honor and power.
Col.3.2 - Let heaven fill your thoughts. Do not think only about things down here on earth.
Col.3.3 - For you died when Christ died, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God.
Col.3.4 - And when Christ, who is your real life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory.
Col.3.5 - So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires. Don't be greedy for the good things of this life, for that is idolatry.


According to the new testament being at the right hand of God is the honor given to the Messiah who purified us from sins

Heb.1.3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Fulfilling the prophecy in Psalm
Ps.110.1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

And we know that Jesus was exalted so that another prophecy may be fulfilled from Joel
Acts.2.33 - Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

So right now Jesus is at the right hand of God not as a god but as our intercessor
Rom.8.34 - Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Who after his sacrifice for us is also waiting
Heb.10.12 - But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
Heb.10.13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,

So like I said initially let him be our focus, our goal, because God rewarded him for his obedience he will reward us to no matter what we through in our obedience to God.
Heb.12.2 - Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


That's what the right hand of God is, the right hand of his power that God is too faithful to fail, the right hand of his promise, his right hand of salvation. For what awaits us

Ps.16.11 You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

Ps.48.10 According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness. (ALL)

And who better represents the righteousness of God than the one whom he sent to fulfill righteousness and make us right with God
For thy right hand uphold us and at thy right hand is life.

SIRTee15:


Ok do U now agree I AM is the name of God?

I have no problem with Jesus being the son of God. But if Jesus is not God, then it means the Father sent another being to be killed so He can forgive humanity- father sacrificed his son kind of arrangement.
That looks like human sacrifice to me and it's called paganism. God hates human sacrifice.

Jesus is not another being/existence sent to shed his blood for mankind. Instead, the father put his own divinity inside a prepared body for the work of atonement. He didn't send someone else.

In short

Na God died on the cross?

DaddyCoool:


So there, you have your answer. And that’s why he is God

🤣🤣

gohf:
🤣🤣

I don't get. What do you find so funny?

SIRTee15:
.

Jesus is not another being/existence sent to shed his blood for mankind. Instead, the father put his own divinity inside a prepared body for the work of atonement. He didn't send someone else.

Atonement means reparation, reconciliation. But the atonement is NOT towards a third person, so why is all that necessary?

DaddyCoool:


Are you ok. How is that what they did with Jesus??

How can they invent someone who said their mighty gods were useless and their god-emperor was a lowly sinner like everyone else and not anything like a god at all.
How can they invent a just, innocent person they themselves crucified despite itting he was innocent! How does that put them in good light? Wouldn't you invent someone who'd be saying you're the best people on earth?? Then all His disciples and apostles they invented cruelly feeding to lions and crucifying!
Please mention one thing in Christianity that puts Rome in good light!

For a start, the headquarters of Christianity is in Rome (Vatican city) so what else?

The Jewish religion is Judaism and it is based on their Torah...in it, God actually said he hates human sacrifice. So Christianity can't be from him.

It so easy to detect .
You are being lied to....

sonmvayina:


For a start, the headquarters of Christianity is in Rome (Vatican city) so what else?

The Jewish religion is Judaism and it is based on their Torah...in it, God actually said he hates human sacrifice. So Christianity can't be from him.

It so easy to detect .
You are being lied to....

You didn't answer the question:
mention one thing about the Christ Rome supposedly invented that puts Rome in good light!

If you invent someone he ought say your gods and leaders and way of life are the best. Instead it's the opposite - he trashed them all, up to even almost advising that people not pay taxes - give unto Caesar ONLY that with his image!

SIRTee15:


Mr Man stop the crap.
The ancient Jews believed in the divine messiah.
I can give U bible verse to this if U want.
Start with Daniel 7.

Ode, Messiah means anointed king.
Last time I checked, kings are human beings. Not divine.
The Messiah will be anointed with a special oil kept at the ark of the covenant. He will be a ruler and king.israel will become a monarchy..
And there will be world wide peace and no form of oppression. That is what I am looking forward to. Not to worship a man as god, that is called idolatry..

DaddyCoool:


You didn't answer the question:
mention one thing about the Christ Rome supposedly invented that puts Rome in good light!

If you invent someone he ought say your gods and leaders and way of life are the best. Instead it's the opposite - he trashed them all, up to even almost advising that people not pay taxes - give unto Caesar ONLY that with his image!

You have already answered your question in the last paragraph..
The real Messiah is not coming to patronize anybody. He will bring peace between the Jewish people and their enemies by leading them to battle
He will end all forms of oppression. Jesus did not do that...
Jesus is a composite of all earlier saviour myths.

SIRTee15:


If I bring evidence from Jewish scriptures itself showing the logos created the earth, would U accept?

Logos simply means word.
According to the Torah, God spoke the world into existence...
What else do you have?
Bring it let see it..

Nachmonides:



To just drop knowledge?

The end point of knowledge is actions, and actions come from a belief in that knowledge.

By the way, I am not dropping beliefs, I am sharing knowledge, and hopefully, I think, am having a conversation.

You better be certain of whatever you drop and it has to make sense. My brain is not for decoration.

Nachmonides:


There's no one in the sky.

Ok..we both agree on something.

God is consciousness.... different cultures have different names for it/him/her