NewStats: 3,259,421 , 8,170,047 topics. Date: Saturday, 24 May 2025 at 10:22 PM 2c506c

IbeOkehie:


1) I don't understand this sentence. IF you're claiming women work longer hours for less, that is wrong. In any workplace women likely work fewer hours than men.

2) Men have never been GIVEN the upper hand by any human or political bias.

Nature gave men the upper hand....bigger muscle mass for example. When it comes to IQ, averages are the same for both genders but males tend to have higher presence at the lowest and highest IQ percentile, while women have higher presence in between.

For most of human existence, muscle mass was the most prized commodity and conferred superiority and power. By the way, men with small muscles and physique were just as powerless as women back in those days.

As humanity grew richer, more jobs that needed brain power and less muscle became available and women could participate MORE in the economy and earning money. So today the women are a near or outright majority of law and medical graduates in the USA (makes sense because those require average or a bit higher levels of intellect) while men are the majority of self made billionaires and millionaires which likely demands exceptionally high IQ or aggressiveness.

Anyway these are elementary things that most educated people should know by now. For the record I couldn't understand much of what you wrote sha, hence I picked two that were clear enough...I think. So ignore me if I didn't get your points.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

It's straight forward answer. Women can take longer hours like men. The rest of my jargon is what I have been re- echoing here that irk me so much irrespective of how I presented the points.


Don't know why after so many yrs in this forum, folks still identify me as a male.

descarado:

Women take up longer hours and earn exactly what men earn as long as women are employed in that line of work.
Where do you live?
The only thing you can say is when they're is an opportunity to grow, men are mostly considered cos of motherhood except women whose kids are no longer dependent on them.
Also a mother can afford to chose staying closer to her kids than career development and expansion. Aside this, women and men earn the same where I live except in sports and news media.

That is the Motherhood penalty and it is the major reason lesbians outearn married women. This link: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/03/07/where-is-the-motherhood-penalty-greatest shows studies across countries, developed and developing. Women leave the workforce in some countries and in others, they take up low-paying roles. If women earned less than men, almost all lucrative industries would employ women so they pay low salaries. Capitalism isn't interested in gender politics, but in the bottom line. But how would lucrative industries even employ only women when more men take up quantitative courses/programs than women? Why Quantitative programs? They lead to higher earnings in every part of the world and their industries are largely uniform and less regulated by national laws regarding employment. In fact, in the Nordic examples, policymakers were surprised why women INTENTIONALLY chose low paying industries even with gender equal laws.

Any young lady who studies Mathematics, excels at it, gets into the workforce, declines to marry or have children, and works long hours as the male folks do would earn equally as them (male folks). It is a straightforward line.

Feminism of old is good. Women were treated like property. They fought, protested. Eg, in uk,women do not vote until one lady fought and took it to the street with other women. Unfortunately, she died before it was implemented. In BBC male anchors are paid more than female. These are what feminists should fight for.
Today, especially in usa, I don't know what feminism meant to them.
If feminism is fighting for a trans man to compete in an all female sports and use women toilet, that is not feminism but wokeism.

You would be accused of transphobia as the world is expected to disregard basic biology because of some sick ideology.

Most of the anti men feminist celebrities have one thing in common, failed relationships and marriages.

Misery loves company.

Fight for more maternity leave grant, pay, no dismissal cos you are pregnant, take a sick leave with pay cos your child is sick, company bending to your will cos your kid comes first eg, they book training during your day off when it's school run.

In most developed countries, those policies are abundantly present.

Magnoliaa:


And I have exhaustively belaboured the fact that nobody is being unaffected.

So your "disagreement" is moot.


Believing in Yahweh or Sango is unlike believing a man can become a woman and expecting everybody to go along with it. So it's not "eh". It has real life implications.

I am a Christian myself, but even I know that if I go and jump off a 20-strorey building, I will die.

Gravity is a natural law just as biological immutability is.

These are things that makes the society ordered and stable, to a large part. No matter the extent post-structural and -modernist and constructionist and transhumanist theories go, they will never replace natural precepts and laws and society, or least in an harmonious way.

You seem to be unpurposefully or purposefully conflating multiple things.
If I jump off a 20 story building, the consequence is I will die.
What is the consequence to me or society if I choose to say I am a woman?

And honestly, I feel some of these arguments were used back in the days to justify racism and sexism. Especially the ordered and stabled society argument.

Magnoliaa:

How do you see the compulsion of using preferred pronouns as wrong, but "living as the opposite sex" as OK when gendered pronouns exists for the purpose of sex differentiation?

Let me delineate the argument again for you.
I believe there are primarily two sexes.
I do not believe in preferred pronouns and don't believe anyone should be forced into using them.
I don't care what you call yourself or how you live your in your personal life. Dress up as a cow for all I care.
I care only in so far it affects me, forces me into using prefered pronouns, etc.
I think that's part of the liberty the US was founded on.

I feel you are making me defend Trans and I'm not a proponent. I just think we have to be careful in dictating how people choose to live their lives.

IbeOkehie:


Thanks for contributing to the discussion. The evidence is overwhelming that women earn less due to objective factors. Notice her list of grievances against Republicans or conservatives includes BOTH maternity leave AND equal pay. 🤔 The simultaneous demand for BOTH rights completely contradicts any declared objectivity.

I have family and friends who have been in the oil & gas industry in Nigeria. I've learned a lot about the industry from them. Field engineers tend to earn more than office based engineers. Whenever the opportunity arises, the women tend to CHOOSE office based roles over field roles. Why? Field jobs are dirty and dangerous. As multiple women in the industry have generally said in my presence..."field engineers have dark skin because they're always in the sun and covered with grease, mud and dirt".

You know, that is the beauty of capitalism and the right to choose. Capitalism rewards hard work and dire risk. It is risky to be drilling oil in the middle of nowhere for a short time away from loved ones. So those who choose this option are well rewarded. A reason many men opt for it is that they are providers and women being hypergamous species gravitate towards men who can provide. As a result, men take up riskier jobs, work longer hours, study for too long, write the most qualifying examinations, opt for harder programs, and apply to lucrative companies/industries more than women do EVEN when there are equal and in some cases favouritism for women. It showed in Nordic countries. So, why would someone in 2024 parrot the claim that there is a gender pay gap? Big Fat Lie!

That is the common thing with Internet feminists: they disregard basic economics and biology.

You mentioned somewhere you knew these things as far back as 15 years ago? Wow, it's more recent for me, at least as conscious knowledge. Sometimes one can sense it without knowing.

As far back as 2014 sef, so ten years. I used to read feminists whine about the pay gap, but the math wasn't matching because the most lucrative industries had fewer women as they chose fewer quantitative courses/programs than men. Men worked longer hours. Even in teaching where women populate, men earn higher because again, they work longer hours, organise tutorial classes and take up the most lucrative subjects - mathematics, physics and chemistry. No one would pay for extra-tutorial classes to grasp English or Commerce, but they willingly and gladly do so for mathematics and physics. Who constitutes the majority of teachers of these subjects? Men. It is everywhere from Japan to Jamaica and Senegal to Singapore.

If a woman wants to earn as equal as a man: she should not have children. Boom! She would earn as equal as a man. Last I checked, women don't need to have children. They can have a billion cats as replacements.

IMAliyu2:
Man united the left and right leaning Americans in their hatred of their messed-up healthcare system.

Not even Matt Walsh fans agree with him in his effort to paint only the left as gleeful about the UnitedHealthcare CEO assassination.

Republicans are funny. They love corporations, billionaire greed and unbridled capitalism. I don’t know why they haven’t realized that the messed up healthcare system they’re not happy with is a result of corporate insurance greed. profit before patient lives.

cococandy:


Republicans are funny. They love corporations, billionaire greed and unbridled capitalism. I don’t know why they haven’t realized that the messed up healthcare system they’re not happy with is a result of corporate insurance greed. profit before patient lives.

They've generally been propagandized to, and are 6 feet deep in an interlocking web of propaganda narratives and thought stopping clichés that appeal to their emotions and biases.

On this specific instance it's quite clear who the bad guys are, and no amount of propaganda will mask that, considering the pain of dealing with healthcare millions of Americans go through, that affect them as individuals directly or affects someone they know and care about.

IMAliyu2:

They've generally been propagandized to, and are 6 feet deep in an interlocking web of propaganda narratives and thought stopping clichés that appeal to their emotions and biases.

On this specific instance it's quite clear who the bad guys are, and no amount of propaganda will mask that, considering the pain of dealing with healthcare millions of Americans go through, that affect them as individuals directly or affects someone they know and care about.

💯
It’s like any line of reasoning that doesn’t billionaire oligarchy must automatically be advocating for communism.

Nope. We love money as much as the next guy. But it doesn’t have to be at the cost of literal lives. There’s more than enough to go around. But capitalism without checks and regulations will implode on itself in french style revolution.

I wish they’d realize sooner than later that there’s us and then there are the billionaires. Even the millionaires don’t belong with the billionaires. They’re closer to the middle class than they are to the billionaires.

Gerrard59:

You know, that is the beauty of capitalism and the right to choose. Capitalism rewards hard work and dire risk. It is risky to be drilling oil in the middle of nowhere for a short time away from loved ones. So those who choose this option are well rewarded. A reason many men opt for it is that they are providers and women being hypergamous species gravitate towards men who can provide. As a result, men take up riskier jobs, work longer hours, study for too long, write the most qualifying examinations, opt for harder programs, and apply to lucrative companies/industries more than women do EVEN when there are equal and in some cases favouritism for women. It showed in Nordic countries. So, why would someone in 2024 parrot the claim that there is a gender pay gap? Big Fat Lie!

That is the common thing with Internet feminists: they disregard basic economics and biology.

Are you sure? How much harder does a company‘s CEO work than the average worker to earn up to 300 times more? How much does the Shell company CEO make compared to those who do the drilling? Are workers compensated for the value they produce? Pulease! Don’t get me even started.

descarado:

It's straight forward answer. Women can take longer hours like men. The rest of my jargon is what I have been re- echoing here that irk me so much irrespective of how I presented the points.


Don't know why after so many yrs in this forum, folks still identify me as a male.

OK, now I THINK you mean that women can TOLERATE long hours just like men.

If that is what you meant, it's WRONG. Women can't and by their own choice and sometimes unavoidable circumstances DON'T work as many hours as men, even on the same jobs. Society didn't impose PREGNANCY on women, nature did that. The demand for maternal leave is basically a demand that men should work less to equalize effort.

Anyone who has been a manager in the workforce can tell you that women have more abseentism than men.

Good Luck to Nigerians

Maeve7:


Are you sure? How much harder does a company‘s CEO work than the average worker to earn up to 300 times more? How much does the Shell company CEO make compared to those who do the drilling? Are workers compensated for the value they produce? Pulease! Don’t get me even started.

If the company fails, the CEO gets the boot. Anyone who wants to become a CEO should work for it or start your own company. Again, you see - freedom to choose. If you don't like how much you earn, change jobs, study quantitative courses, start a business challenging the dominant company.

Why stop at oil companies? Do teachers earn the same as principals? Do level 1 doctors earn the same as CMDs? Do entry-level ants earn the same as chartered ants with years of experience? Why do you want to reap where you have not sowed?

Abeg, I no dey like debate with faux communists! It gets me pissed off when people cannot grasp basic economics. You want big money, but aren't ready to put in the work. Make dem just pack money give you based on vibes!

Gerrard59:

If the company fails, the CEO gets the boot. Anyone who wants to become a CEO should work for it or start your own company. Again, you see - freedom to choose. If you don't like how much you earn, change jobs, study quantitative courses, start a business challenging the dominant company.

Why stop at oil companies? Do teachers earn the same as principals? Do level 1 doctors earn the same as CMDs? Do entry-level ants earn the same as chartered ants with years of experience? Why do you want to reap where you have not sowed?

Abeg, I no dey like debate with faux communists! It gets me pissed off when people cannot grasp basic economics. You want big money, but aren't ready to put in the work. Make dem just pack money give you based on vibes!

You said capitalism rewards hard work and risk. Does the CEO of an oil company work harder than the workers who do the drilling? Simple question. Answer it.

Stop typing blindly. The CEOs who mismanage companies are nonetheless compensated with millions. Educate yourself first!

kkins25:


That's very much the conservative's talking point---not particularly what someone in the Left wing would say.

It was a funny video. Hmm your loss.

I could not concentrate on the video for some reason, and having watched it now, only in America. No one would ask me in UK if I identify as black because they'd at least trust what they see with their own eyes, though one would need to be rather stupid and ignorant to identify a person by their skin colour alone and ignore everything else about me.

When I was young, people wanted to identify me with my surname, but I preferred to be identified by my first name. So, I simply ignored anyone who called me my surname until they used my first name. My identity is mine to define, and not anyone else's.

Same here where I identify as gender fluid. “Hello. My name is buda. My pronouns are ‘they, theirs, and them.’”, but I can't force anyone to comply.

If I see John, and you tell me your name is Samantha, who am I to argue and why should I?

Maeve7:


Are you sure?

How much harder does a company‘s CEO work than the average worker to earn up to 300 times more?

How much does the Shell company CEO make compared to those who do the drilling?

Are workers compensated for the value they produce?

Pulease! Don’t get me even started.

Every point up there can be LOGICALLY justified. CEO's generally deserve to earn more than workers. Busy now, I'm going to DETAIL it down and it's not even hard to understand.

Good Luck for Nigerians.

Maeve7:
You said capitalism rewards hard work and risk. Does the CEO of an oil company work harder than the workers who do the drilling? Simple question. Answer it.

Stop typing blindly. The CEOs who mismanage companies are nonetheless compensated with millions. Educate yourself first!

I'm equally as invested in the response to this.

IbeOkehie:


Every point up there is true and can be LOGICALLY justified. CEO's generally deserve to earn more than workers. Busy now, I'm going to DETAIL it down and it's not even hard to understand.

Good Luck for Nigerians.

Yes they deserve more. It’s illogical to argue otherwise

Do they deserve 200-400x more than everyone else?
That’s the argument. And that’s the average American ceo compensation compared to the average worker.

You guys make it sound like we think everyone should be on the same salary level. No there’s an art to keeping a robust middle class. And that art is becoming lost in America as more and more people fall into poverty while the billionaire class earns more and more each year

Gerrard59:

If the company fails, the CEO gets the boot. Anyone who wants to become a CEO should work for it or start your own company. Again, you see - freedom to choose. If you don't like how much you earn, change jobs, study quantitative courses, start a business challenging the dominant company.

Why stop at oil companies? Do teachers earn the same as principals? Do level 1 doctors earn the same as CMDs? Do entry-level ants earn the same as chartered ants with years of experience? Why do you want to reap where you have not sowed?

Abeg, I no dey like debate with faux communists! It gets me pissed off when people cannot grasp basic economics. You want big money, but aren't ready to put in the work. Make dem just pack money give you based on vibes!

You’re no economist yourself if you don’t know what category resources fall under. If YOU could grasp basic economics you’d know that resources are finite. That’s the nature of resources. You can milk it but only up to a point. If you made 20 billion in profits this quarter, in order to have record profits next quarter, you have to make more than 20 billion and the next quarter you have to make even more. Having record profits every quarter comes at a price and that price is your physical resource or human resource.

So instead of rewarding excessive greed, a system of capitalism that prioritizes replenishment can be encouraged. A system whereby resources are replenished by either giving more rewards as incentives to the human capital to keep them happy. Keeping a healthy population by making healthcare accessible. Etc. There are many ways that capitalism can be sustained without creating destitution and a widening gap in the economic classes.

IbeOkehie:
Every point up there is true and can be LOGICALLY justified. CEO's generally deserve to earn more than workers. Busy now, I'm going to DETAIL it down and it's not even hard to understand.

Good Luck for Nigerians.

And please, in your response, do show the role of hard work. The hard, not smart, work that CEOs do more than average workers.


God bless all Earth Citizens.

Magnoliaa:


And please, in your response, do show the role of hard work. The hard, not smart, work that CEOs do more than average workers.


God bless all Earth Citizens.

Oh but he’s going to.

Because these subjective metrics they use to place value on arbitrary qualities they believe only men possess is a perfect way of justifying why they think these broligarchs deserve the earth.

IbeOkehie:


Every point up there is true and can be LOGICALLY justified. CEO's generally deserve to earn more than workers. Busy now, I'm going to DETAIL it down and it's not even hard to understand.

Good Luck for Nigerians.

I‘m curious to read how much more they deserve to earn according to you.

Magnoliaa:


I'm equally as invested in the response to this.

I knew how he would reply to my first mention and I‘m anticipating the next one. I‘m ready.

Magnoliaa:



Anyway, if you'd be interested and would have the chance to, and it's hopefully possible to listen without an , here's the link to the space (you can set a reminder beforehand) - https://x.com/i/spaces/1ZkJzRrXBNXJv/peek

It's going to be a discussion addressing male violence against women, and workable solutions towards combating it as part of the #16DaysofActivism global campaign. Nsijs


Amazon, you can also in, if you can.

We'd be glad to have you ladies there! 🤗

Sorry I missed this.

Gerrard59:

That is the Motherhood penalty and it is the major reason lesbians outearn married women. This link: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/03/07/where-is-the-motherhood-penalty-greatest shows studies across countries, developed and developing.

To add to your link, here's another.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X20300144

The fact that women had traditionally been barred from working at all in most societies, and couldn't inherit and get a degree or a bank till relatively recent, adds a lot to the gap in pay for the same job, note, as no sensible person expects equal pay for different jobs.

Feminism has thankfully narrowed the gap, with more women entering STEM today than men.

Maeve7:


You said capitalism rewards hard work and risk. Does the CEO of an oil company work harder than the workers who do the drilling? Simple question. Answer it.

Stop typing blindly. The CEOs who mismanage companies are nonetheless compensated with millions. Educate yourself first!

Yes the CEO mental work is higher than those doing the field work.

You can get many people to be the muscle, its way harder to be the brain

He invests his money and finances into it while most workers get paid for work done. On payday you dared not miss the payment of the workers whether you have to borrow for it or whatever

If it's easy being a CEO let everyone try to be one.

raumdeuter:


Yes the CEO mental work is higher than those doing the field work.

You can get many people to be the muscle, its way harder to be the brain

Then it‘s about demand and supply of labor and not about hard work.

raumdeuter:


Yes the CEO mental work is higher than those doing the field work.

You can get many people to be the muscle, its way harder to be the brain

He invests his money and finances into it while most workers get paid for work done. On payday you dared not miss the payment of the workers whether you have to borrow for it or whatever

If it's easy being a CEO let everyone try to be one.

Do you really believe that all CEOs are the owners of the companies they work for?

cococandy:


Oh but he’s going to.

Because these subjective metrics they use to place value on arbitrary qualities they believe only men possess is a perfect way of justifying why they think these broligarchs deserve the earth.

Right here in bold.

IjeBos:

And honestly, I feel some of these arguments were used back in the days to justify racism and sexism. Especially the ordered and stabled society argument.

That "ordered and stabled society argument" makes me cringe too. But I recognise not everyone makes the sort of association you've made here.

I can bet you that whites in America earn more than blacks in America (especially if stated as loosely and ignorantly as I've stated it), and I can just about hear the arguments that whites have higher IQs than blacks, and work longer hours than blacks and take less time off than blacks despite the fact that blacks in America earned whips and chains and food and board and no education for centuries, which disadvantaged them just as the equivalent oppressions did women.

Here's from UK:
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2020/jun/23/white-household-income-in-uk-is-63-higher-than-black-households-ons-finds

And the whys according to some:
https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/understanding-black-white-disparities-in-labor-market-outcomes/

Maeve7:


Do you really believe that all CEOs are the owners of the companies they work for?

They are the representatives of the owners they are the people the owners trust to run the business on their behalf if the owners cannot

Maeve7:


Then it‘s about demand and supply of labor and not about hard work.

It's the same in many cases. The harder the work is, the harder it is to get people to fill it and the more compensation they get to do what most people either can't do, don't want to do or don't have the aptitude to do

Gerrard59:

You know, that is the beauty of capitalism and the right to choose. Capitalism rewards hard work and dire risk. It is risky to be drilling oil in the middle of nowhere for a short time away from loved ones. So those who choose this option are well rewarded. A reason many men opt for it ......

I think you are completely missing the point of gender pay equality.

No one here is arguing that, say a teacher, be paid the same as "drilling oil in the middle of nowhere", regardless of gender, but that if a woman is "drilling oil in the middle of nowhere", she should be paid the same as men who are "drilling oil in the middle of nowhere".

And women should not be barred from "drilling oil in the middle of nowhere", because there is no evidence that women can not drill oil in the middle of nowhere.

Women in the army has shown how competent we are, but I'm certain someone will throw some selected right wing at me to try to show otherwise.

raumdeuter:


They are the representatives of the owners they are the people the owners trust to run the business on their behalf if the owners cannot

You said they invest their money. If they are not the owners, they don’t need to invest money so your argument to justify the huge income disparity between CEOs and workers doesn‘t hold.

Now tell me where the money these CEOs get comes from.

Thank you!!

Because that one argument Ibe made about more self made men billionaires compared to women almost made me grind my teeth. I didn’t even know if I should go into replying him or not.

How are we completely ignoring the fact that women in america (since that’s the society we based the income inequality on ) couldn’t get access to credit and loans until the 1974.

How were they supposed to fund the billion dollar businesses and catch up to centuries of men’s unfettered access to collectively owned natural resources?

budaatum:


That "ordered and stabled society argument" makes me cringe too. But I recognise not everyone makes the sort of association you've made here.

I can bet you that whites in America earn more than blacks in America (especially if stated as loosely and ignorantly as I've stated it), and I can just about hear the arguments that whites have higher IQs than blacks, and work longer hours than blacks and take less time off than blacks despite the fact that blacks in America earned whips and chains and food and board and no education for centuries, which disadvantaged them just as the equivalent oppressions did women.

Here's from UK:
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2020/jun/23/white-household-income-in-uk-is-63-higher-than-black-households-ons-finds

And the whys according to some:
https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/understanding-black-white-disparities-in-labor-market-outcomes/