NewStats: 3,261,700 , 8,174,828 topics. Date: Friday, 30 May 2025 at 08:06 AM t5t3w

sonmvayina:


Jesus belongs to the realm of mythology.

Worshipping him is nothing short of foolishness.

If you belong to the group that worship him as god you need to have your head examined.

What mythology? Because last I checked, the Jews some believe in him and he's a Jew. I hope you won't be dumb to come and claim Roman mythology

Kukutente23:

What mythology? Because last I checked, the Jews some believe in him and he's a Jew. I hope you won't be dumb to come and claim Roman mythology

Which Jews?

It is idolatry, they won't try it..
And moreover, God never told them to believe in the messiah. For one he is not a kind of deity. He is a man like me and you with a Jewish father ( from the tribe of Judah ) and a Jewish mother. He is coming to bring universal peace( no more oppression of any kind) and the universal acknowledgement of the creator of the universe..That has not happened and they are still waiting. He is not coming to die for sins, God already gave them a solution to that problem. Except you want to advise God that the solution he provided is not sufficient. Then you can take it up with him.

But as long as the Messiah is concerned he is no different from you and I.
And he will restore Israel to a kingdom because he would be king..
He is not part of a triune God., for God is one ..not 3 in 1.


So many things the Christian claim for their jesus are irrelevant to the Jewish definition of what a Messiah is. They where the one God promised the Messiah and if they say jesus does not fit the definition, I think the best we can do is listen to them..

sonmvayina:


Which Jews?

It is idolatry, they won't try it..
And moreover, God never told them to believe in the messiah. For one he is not a kind of deity. He is a man like me and you with a Jewish father ( from the tribe of Judah ) and a Jewish mother. He is coming to bring universal peace( no more oppression of any kind) and the universal acknowledgement of the creator of the universe..That has not happened and they are still waiting. He is not coming to die for sins, God already gave them a solution to that problem. Except you want to advise God that the solution he provided is not sufficient. Then you can take it up with him.

But as long as the Messiah is concerned he is no different from you and I.
And he will restore Israel to a kingdom because he would be king..
He is not part of a triune God., for God is one ..not 3 in 1.


So many things the Christian claim for their jesus are irrelevant to the Jewish definition of what a Messiah is. They where the one God promised the Messiah and if they say jesus does not fit the definition, I think the best we can do is listen to them..

What is the solution God gave Israelites for their sins?

This Israel is a democracy. Are you saying Israel are still expecting someone to come and take them back to monarchy?

Isaiah told them that a Messaiah is coming to reconcile them to God and establish peace. Can you quote the scriptures that back up your claim on the Messaiah or they are just your fantasies

Kukutente23:

What is the solution God gave Israelites for their sins?

See 2nd chronicles 7:14.

Israel is a democracy. Are you saying Israel are still expecting someone to come and take them back to monarchy?

Messiah means "anointed king. Definitely he would restore Israel to a kingdom. And rule as king. For God said the Sceptre will not depart from Judah

Isaiah told them that a Messiah is coming to reconcile them to God and establish peace. Can you quote the scriptures that back up your claim on the Messiah or they are just your fantasies

see isaiah chapter 1 and 2.

The purpose of The Messiah is to come at The End Of Days and usher in a world Utopian society of Love, Peace, and The Universal Knowledge of God to the world.
(Isa 11-12; Jer 31:33; Zech 14:9; Zeph 3:9; Mic 4:1-2; Isa 27:12-13; Isa 43:5-6; Jer 16:15; Jer 23:3; Ezk 34:11-16; Ezk 36:24-28; Ezk 37:21-22; Joel 4:1; Amos 9:15; Mic 2:12; Zeph 3:18-20;
Zech 10:6-10)

sonmvayina:


Fact remains Jesus belongs to mythology same as Moses, Abraham...I am not excluding anyone ..

The only reason they where written is for us to read the story and learn the messages they contain.
The Torah is still about the two brothers..
Enki = Jacob
Enlil = Esau...
So when Christians decided to mistranslate the text just to deceive, that fact is what I am pointing out...

.

I'm sure you know what mythology means. How can someone who we are sure of his historicity be part of mythology, the fact historical figures get mythological elements added to narratives about them doesn't make them mythological, YHVH's what you call mythological not Jesus.

I don't necessarily care why they were written as its full of historical inaccuracies and contradiction after contradiction. It's always obvious when somone uses random youtube sources cause that's how they come up with ludicrous stuff like enlil = jacob without any reputable sources or historical or textual evidence. Lay off the youtube source, its garbage.

Lastly saying christains mistranslate the texts is funny, when there's virtually no objective interpretation of the texts. Everyone comes to their own subjective conclusions cause there's nothing objective about it, circularlly at least, one book(thats not even considering the different versions) several religions and denomination. Where's this objective translation that is been mistranslated, lol and how does mistranslation equals Jesus didn't exist. Like i said you are everywhere. You should take your own advice.

Lucifyre:

.

I'm sure you know what mythology means. How can someone who we are sure of his historicity be part of mythology, the fact historical figures get mythological elements added to narratives about them doesn't make them mythological, YHVH's what you call mythological not Jesus.

I don't necessarily care why they were written as its full of historical inaccuracies and contradiction after contradiction. It's always obvious when somone uses random youtube sources cause that's how they come up with ludicrous stuff like enlil = jacob without any reputable sources or historical or textual evidence. Lay off the youtube source, its garbage.

Lastly saying christains mistranslate the texts is funny, when there's virtually no objective interpretation of the texts. Everyone comes to their own subjective conclusions cause there's nothing objective about it, circularlly at least, one book several religions and denominations, So how does mistranslation equals Jesus didn't exist. Like i said you are everywhere.

Keep up young man.

I made a comment that the Jesus character is a myth because it has all the elements of mythology..like virgin birth, which is also shared by Perseus, Hercules, Bacchus etc.
Hope you are not being deceived by the two contradictory genealogy in mathew and Luke, that invented a human history for him. If really he was sired by the holy Spirit, what is the purpose of the genealogy ? That should be a red flag.
The Torah on the other side was written by Ezra and the priests when they left the Babylonian exile.(Not by Moses) Much of the material used where from Babylonian mythology. Like I always say, the stories are the same, the only difference is who is telling it...the Jews adapted much of Babylonian stories and included them as part of their belief system...
There are a lot of mistranslation in the Christian Bible...example include Allah for virgin in Isaiah 7:14. Isaiah was referring to his wife who was with child and somehow the author of the gospel according to Mathew mistranslated it, for Jesus...

Jesus never existed...that's fact.

sonmvayina:


Keep up young man.

I made a comment that the Jesus character is a myth because it has all the elements of mythology..like virgin birth, which is also shared by Perseus, Hercules, Bacchus etc.
Hope you are not being deceived by the two contradictory genealogy in mathew and Luke, that invented a human history for him. If really he was sired by the holy Spirit, what is the purpose of the genealogy ? That should be a red flag.
The Torah on the other side was written by Ezra and the priests when they left the Babylonian exile.(Not by Moses) Much of the material used where from Babylonian mythology. Like I always say, the stories are the same, the only difference is who is telling it...the Jews adapted much of Babylonian stories and included them as part of their belief system...
There are a lot of mistranslation in the Christian Bible...example include Allah for virgin in Isaiah 7:14. Isaiah was referring to his wife who was with child and somehow the author of the gospel according to Mathew mistranslated it, for Jesus...

Jesus never existed...that's fact.

Like i said fact doesn't care what you believe. Flat earthers till this day believe the earth's flat even when they can't prove it. Who cares what they believe, we know the facts. So it doesn't even matter what you say, it's already what it is and can be backed anywhere by brilliant scholary peer reviewed research from top institutions the world over. You keep jumping from one to another without even defending some of the funny(i'm trying not to use the words ludicrous and baseless) stuff u've spouted without virtually any reputable source or proof, just more spouting.

The only 'proof' or 'source' you managed to bring just happened to contradict what you said, which is ironic as fvck. Now its Ezra wrote the torah 🤦 like wtf. Anyways like i said Jesus existed and no reputable scholar goes against that. That's what matter not randos on the internet without any proof or peer review spouting any ludicrous thing. Fact's are backed by evidence, reputable sources and peer reviews, not baseless unverifiable claims.

Lucifyre:


Like i said fact doesn't care what you believe. Flat earthers till this day believe the earth's flat even when they can't prove it. Who cares what they believe, we know the facts. So it doesn't even matter what you say, it's already what it is and can be backed anywhere by brilliant scholary peer reviewed research from top institutions the world over. You keep jumping from one to another without even defending some of the funny(i'm trying not to use the words ludicrous and baseless) stuff u've spouted without virtually any reputable source or proof, just more spouting.

The only 'proof' or 'source' you managed to bring just happened to contradict what you said, which is ironic as fvck. Now its Ezra wrote the torah 🤦 like wtf. Anyways like i said Jesus existed and no reputable scholar goes against that. That's what matter not randos on the internet without any proof or peer review spouting any ludicrous thing. Fact's are backed by evidence, reputable sources and peer reviews, not baseless unverifiable claims.

What are the evidence ..young man.

I will really love to see them..

Lucifyre:


Like i said fact doesn't care what you believe. Flat earthers till this day believe the earth's flat even when they can't prove it. Who cares what they believe, we know the facts. So it doesn't even matter what you say, it's already what it is and can be backed anywhere by brilliant scholary peer reviewed research from top institutions the world over. You keep jumping from one to another without even defending some of the funny(i'm trying not to use the words ludicrous and baseless) stuff u've spouted without virtually any reputable source or proof, just more spouting.

The only 'proof' or 'source' you managed to bring just happened to contradict what you said, which is ironic as fvck. Now its Ezra wrote the torah 🤦 like wtf. Anyways like i said Jesus existed and no reputable scholar goes against that. That's what matter not randos on the internet without any proof or peer review spouting any ludicrous thing. Fact's are backed by evidence, reputable sources and peer reviews, not baseless unverifiable claims.

I am still waiting for your evidence on the historicity of Jesus...

I will not stop chasing you till you present the evidences you talked about..

Seems my comment educating ignorant folks was removed for being too long or something or maybe too many sources😅. Anyways i'd try pasting it again in smaller chunks.

sonmvayina:

I am still waiting for your evidence on the historicity of Jesus... I will not stop chasing you till you present the evidences you talked about..

Ignorant and confident, very dangerous combo typical of close minded folks.  Anyways let me use a fine comb to comb said ignorance and school you. I'll start with Dr Bart Ehrman which you confidently, amusingly and ignorantly claimed to a position which if you just took a couple of secs to educate urself would have found contradicts the claim you were making, least i forget the hilarious mention of Kenneth Humphreys.  I already cited one of Dr Bart's works up there "Misquoting Jesus" as a source.

In addition his books "Did Jesus Exist" and "Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet Of The New Millennium" further addresses and asserts the historicity of Jesus. Bart had this to say in a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship on the subject matter, Ehrman wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees." Reputable historian James Dunn also writes: "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed.

Other notable scholars like Maurice Casey of University of Nottingham in his book "Jesus: Evidence and Argument or Mythicist Myths?" addresses the mythicist claim that Jesus didn't exist. Funny thing is the question of historicity was generally settled in scholarship in the early 20th century, before you even thought to exist.
Mark Smith, John Meier, Paula Frederiksen and Helen Bond amongst others have all ed this consensus view in their various works. So anyone still questioning this at this time obviously doesn't know what they're saying and are not to be taken seriously...

sonmvayina:


I am still waiting for your evidence on the historicity of Jesus...
I will not stop chasing you till you present the evidences you talked about..

(Fucking Nairaland deleting my comments for adding sources. wth! Ill add em as a pic instead)

...Even if you want to go by concensus by countries. There is not a single country on earth that i know of with a consensus that Jesus never existed: see attached image.

Also the 2015 survey of scholars in the field of New Testament studies conuninformed the Society For Biblical Literature SBL, reported 93% of respondents believed Jesus existed historically, 6% were uncertain, 1% did not believe Jesus existed.

What evidence did these reputable scholars with years of experience studying this the world over, examine to come to the conlusion and consensus they did more than 80 years ago?! One, the synoptic gospels themselves and before you say it can't be used as evidence this is what the legendary Dr Bart which you cited had to say "To dismiss the Gospels from the historical record is neither fair nor scholarly." Another is the Pauline epistles which were even written before the gospels and i mean the actual 7 Pauline letters out of the attributed 13.

The interesting thing is they analysed external evidence to corroborate and add to the evidence of the new testament texts which led to the consensus. Jewish historian Jospehus in his book Antiquities, that specifically mentions Jesus twice and his crucifixion by Pontius Pilate. Roman historian Tacitus In his Annals mentions Jesus' execution by Pontius Pilate and refers to the existence of Christians in Rome, whom he describes as followers of “Christus.”

Add another Roman historian Suetonius: In The Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius mentions disturbances in Rome “at the instigation of Christus”. This is nor even considering Eusebius as he's controversial or the historical context of other messianic claimants around the same time period. and contextual evidence from the documented matyrdom of followers and the rapid spread of christianity.

Then more than 80 years later after the historicity had been established, one psuedo informed, anonymous random on the internet who can't even get his references right comes to state otherwise all cause he consumed some half baked info from garbage youtube sources,  when experts already had this settled before the birth of his parents?!. What an uninformed close minded joker. I'm not even a christain but common sense says facts are facts. Over to you, lets see your "sources" and "evidences" and the academic community that backs it.  lol!

Luciii:


(Fucking Nairaland deleting my comments for adding sources. wth! Ill add em as a pic instead)

...Even if you want to go by concensus by countries. There is not a single country on earth that i know of with a consensus that Jesus never existed: see attached image.

Also the 2015 survey of scholars in the field of New Testament studies conuninformed the Society For Biblical Literature SBL, reported 93% of respondents believed Jesus existed historically, 6% were uncertain, 1% did not believe Jesus existed.

What evidence did these reputable scholars with years of experience studying this the world over, examine to come to the conlusion and consensus they did more than 80 years ago?! One, the synoptic gospels themselves and before you say it can't be used as evidence this is what the legendary Dr Bart which you cited had to say "To dismiss the Gospels from the historical record is neither fair nor scholarly." Another is the Pauline epistles which were even written before the gospels and i mean the actual 7 Pauline letters out of the attributed 13.

The interesting thing is they analysed external evidence to corroborate and add to the evidence of the new testament texts which led to the consensus. Jewish historian Jospehus in his book Antiquities, that specifically mentions Jesus twice and his crucifixion by Pontius Pilate. Roman historian Tacitus In his Annals mentions Jesus' execution by Pontius Pilate and refers to the existence of Christians in Rome, whom he describes as followers of “Christus.”

Add another Roman historian Suetonius: In The Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius mentions disturbances in Rome “at the instigation of Christus”. This is nor even considering Eusebius as he's controversial or the historical context of other messianic claimants around the same time period. and contextual evidence from the documented matyrdom of followers and the rapid spread of christianity.

Then more than 80 years later after the historicity had been established, one psuedo informed, anonymous random on the internet who can't even get his references right comes to state otherwise all cause he consumed some half baked info from garbage youtube sources,  when experts already had this settled before the birth of his parents?!. What an uninformed close minded joker. I'm not even a christain but common sense says facts are facts. Over to you, lets see your "sources" and "evidences" and the academic community that backs it.  lol!

Which evidences did they consider?

Every body knows that the evidence in Josephus work is fake as it was Christians who had it and added those stuff..
All the others are too far to be considered evidence...

I see you trying so hard...simply because you don't want to accept the fact that you have lived your whole life believing a lie...and probably wasted your whole money on it..

Lucifyre:


Ignorant and confident, very dangerous combo typical of close minded folks.  Anyways let me use a fine comb to comb said ignorance and school you. I'll start with Dr Bart Ehrman which you confidently, amusingly and ignorantly claimed to a position which if you just took a couple of secs to educate urself would have found contradicts the claim you were making, least i forget the hilarious mention of Kenneth Humphreys.  I already cited one of Dr Bart's works up there "Misquoting Jesus" as a source.

In addition his books "Did Jesus Exist" and "Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet Of The New Millennium" further addresses and asserts the historicity of Jesus. Bart had this to say in a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship on the subject matter, Ehrman wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees." Reputable historian James Dunn also writes: "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed.

Other notable scholars like Maurice Casey of University of Nottingham in his book "Jesus: Evidence and Argument or Mythicist Myths?" addresses the mythicist claim that Jesus didn't exist. Funny thing is the question of historicity was generally settled in scholarship in the early 20th century, before you even thought to exist.
Mark Smith, John Meier, Paula Frederiksen and Helen Bond amongst others have all ed this consensus view in their various works. So anyone still questioning this at this time obviously doesn't know what they're saying and are not to be taken seriously...

When you are ready to provide evidence for the historicity of Jesus let me know..

Can't you get what somebody who actually met him and what they wrote about him.
Is it not funny that the "son of God" made an entrance and nobody noticed it. Somebody the authors said his ministry went as far as Syria..common man..

sonmvayina:


Which evidences did they consider?

Every body knows that the evidence in Josephus work is fake as it was Christians who had it and added those stuff..
All the others are too far to be considered evidence...

I see you trying so hard...simply because you don't want to accept the fact that you have lived your whole life believing a lie...and probably wasted your whole money on it..

😅Typical empty vessel, all bark no bite, i still don't see any sources or evidences to back your claim just deflecting and going on tangents cause u've been caught talking nonsense and can't back it up. I purposefully mentioned the fact there were 2 mentions of Jesus in Josephus antiquities, the second, testimonuim flavonuim was a later interpolation by Christians to prove Jesus' divinity and is well know by scholars as an interpolation, the first mention is proven and legit as shown by every scholar mentioned in my previous post.

But u've got no evidence for you own dross claims so you had to find a way to deflect, by zeroing in to try and find faults in one out of the numerous citations, evidence and scholary consensuses which, just unfortunately happens to be verifiably countered by numerous scholars 😅. No source just words, ive told you i don't even believe in the bible but you try to deflect making it seem like i do simply beacuse i have common sense to put my bias aside and recognize fact, im not religous, my comment history is there 😂.

Just as there are morons out there who believe the earth is flat, we know what is fact and are ok with their delusions. Its just awesome though to demonstrate they are talking baseless nonsense without any verifiable proofs. Provide sources, evidence, scholarly backing and consensus for your ludicrous baseless claims or cowardly tuck your tails between your legs and go on a tangent itting you were talking unverifiable baselsess nonsense. Over to you!😁

.

sonmvayina:


When you are ready to provide evidence for the historicity of Jesus let me know..

Can't you get what somebody who actually met him and what they wrote about him.
Is it not funny that the "son of God" made an entrance and nobody noticed it. Somebody the authors said his ministry went as far as Syria..common man..

Evidence has been provided, write your own journal and peer reviewed paper to the academic community disputing their consensus as wrong and prove said(your) ramblings of an anonymous nobody on the internet against established reputable scholars so we adopt it as fact. No?!😁

Luciii:


Evidence has been provided, write your own journal and peer reviewed paper to the academic community disputing their consensus as wrong and prove said(your) ramblings of an anonymous nobody on the internet against established reputable scholars so we adopt it as fact. No?!😁

Are you saying that no body who actually saw him wrote anything down..

So sad, and the earliest anybody heard the name jesus was actually after the NICea council.
Does it not mean that it was that council that actually invented him?

No matter how ionate you are, jesus is not a historical figure...that is why it is all faith based. Not knowledge....

It is a thing of faith..
If it was true, nobody' will forc you to believe it....

Luciii:


😅Typical empty vessel, all bark no bite, i still don't see any sources or evidences to back your claim just deflecting and going on tangents cause u've been caught talking nonsense and can't back it up. I purposefully mentioned the fact there were 2 mentions of Jesus in Josephus antiquities, the second, testimonuim flavonuim was a later interpolation by Christians to prove Jesus' divinity and is well know by scholars as an interpolation, the first mention is proven and legit as shown by every scholar mentioned in my previous post.

But u've got no evidence for you own dross claims so you had to find a way to deflect, by zeroing in to try and find faults in one out of the numerous citations, evidence and scholary consensuses which, just unfortunately happens to be verifiably countered by numerous scholars 😅. No source just words, ive told you i don't even believe in the bible but you try to deflect making it seem like i do simply beacuse i have common sense to put my bias aside and recognize fact, im not religous, my comment history is there 😂.

Just as there are morons out there who believe the earth is flat, we know what is fact and are ok with their delusions. Its just awesome though to demonstrate they are talking baseless nonsense without any verifiable proofs. Provide sources, evidence, scholarly backing and consensus for your ludicrous baseless claims or cowardly tuck your tails between your legs and go on a tangent itting you were talking unverifiable baselsess nonsense. Over to you!😁

.

The burden of proof is on you..
You are the one saying jesus existed...provide evidence.

I don't have have to provide proof for a negative...


Provide an article or document written by somebody who actually met him. And I will swing to your side...if you can't, then jesus is as real as Harry potter..end of story..

sonmvayina:


Are you saying that no body who actually saw him wrote anything down..

So sad, and the earliest anybody heard the name jesus was actually after the NICea council.
Does it not mean that it was that council that actually invented him?

No matter how ionate you are, jesus is not a historical figure...that is why it is all faith based. Not knowledge....

It is a thing of faith..
If it was true, nobody' will forc you to believe it....

All these tangents and mental gymnastics just to escape providing a source 😅. Maybe if you had bothered educating urself you would have known that yes we dont have first hand s. like i said i don't particularly care if you believe or not so you "crossing/ swinging over to my side" is not my concern, that would be a fools errand. Just wanted to show you were talking unverifiable baseless rubbish. The evidence, sources, scholars and communities are all there in my prev comments, you suddenly getting selective amnesia cause you couldn't refute them or provide yours to cointer them just makes the coward hat fit perfect.

Only few comments above you were happy to provide sources when you ignorantly and confidently thought it ed your claim with Bart, Carrier and Humprhey's(this is still funny). When it was found that the few sources you managed to come up with where rubbish and contradicted you suddenly "can't provide sources for a negative claim" even though you're clearly making an assertions all over the place.😅 Typical flat earther and religious folk energy. Not one of your claims/assertions could you provide a source, consensus, evidence or just a general scholarly perspective for.

From the assertion that Jesus did not exist, to Ezra wrote the torah, to enlil/enki = jacob/esau or the new rubbish up there that no one heard of Jesus until the Nicea council, not one. Or are they're all "negative claims" ergo you wouldn't provide? What a Joker. At least anyone reading this knows you're clearly talking out ur ass. The irony of the staement "Educate yourself" is def something. Knew you would take the cowards way out by going on a tangent.

Luciii:


All these tangents and mental gymnastics just to escape providing a source 😅. Maybe if you had bothered educating urself you would have known that yes we dont have first hand s. like i said i don't particularly care if you believe or not so you "crossing/ swinging over to my side" is not my concern, that would be a fools errand. Just wanted to show you were talking unverifiable baseless rubbish. The evidence, sources, scholars and communities are all there in my prev comments, you suddenly getting selective amnesia cause you couldn't refute them or provide yours to cointer them just makes the coward hat fit perfect.

Only few comments above you were happy to provide sources when you ignorantly and confidently thought it ed your claim with Bart, Carrier and Humprhey's(this is still funny). When it was found that the few sources you managed to come up with where rubbish and contradicted you suddenly "can't provide sources for a negative claim" even though you're clearly making an assertions all over the place.😅 Typical flat earther and religious folk energy. Not one of your claims/assertions could you provide a source, consensus, evidence or just a general scholarly perspective for.

From the assertion that Jesus did not exist, to Ezra wrote the torah, to enlil/enki = jacob/esau or the new rubbish up there that no one heard of Jesus until the Nicea council, not one. Or are they're all "negative claims" ergo you wouldn't provide? What a Joker. At least anyone reading this knows you're clearly talking out ur ass. The irony of the staement "Educate yourself" is def something. Knew you would take the cowards way out by going on a tangent.

You have not provided the evidence that he existed..

I am still waiting..

sonmvayina:


You have not provided the evidence that he existed..

I am still waiting..

Please wait just a little bit 😅