NewStats: 3,261,656 , 8,174,652 topics. Date: Thursday, 29 May 2025 at 11:30 PM 5e6h2

Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

Yes.

Is there anything that you have which you never lost?

Or if you are careless, you would not lose?

Anyone who says this, is a prophet of Satan.

And all those who believed them all later fell and became what people call atheists. Like this guy called Delkuf he is now seeing that God has left him and now he is going berserk, desperately trying to hang on but unfortunately for them God has made that Way not returnable and all of them fall until they become misery full and living in despair just like atheists

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved...

I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

This has been one of the biggest theological debates in Christianity, with both sides presenting strong biblical arguments. But what always comes to my mind is this: If someone "falls away," were they ever truly saved (1 John 2:19), or did they genuinely have salvation and later reject it?

1 John 2:19 – "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

I think one can truly be saved but later choose to reject their faith and turn away from Christ. While salvation is a gift from God, He does not force anyone to remain in it. Just as one can freely accept Christ, they can also walk away through persistent unbelief or rebellion. This is why the Bible repeatedly warns about falling away (Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

I'm Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses would you like me to participate in the ongoing discussion?

gard9ner:
➜Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?
The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

What proof/evidence does this Christian have that he/she indeed has or had this salvation element, to begin with? Let's start there. You can only lose/or not lose what you are certain you first had. What tangible proof — beyond mental delusions— is there of this salvation in the life of this Christian?

MaxInDHouse:
I'm Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses would you like me to participate in the ongoing discussion?

Go ahead

gard9ner:

Go ahead

Christians are people following Jesus in thoughts,words and actions so Judas Iscariot qualified to be called a Christian.

There was a time all other disciples left Jesus and never thought of following him again but Judas stood with his other friends on Jesus' side! John 6:66-68

Judas Iscariot lost out because he failed to endure to the endure to the end of his earthly ministry.

So a Christian may lose if he did not endure to the end! Matthew 24:13

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved,

This statement is very true. A child brought up as a Christian cannot change his or her beliefs. It is very rare to see people changing their affiliation of Faiths.
This is how God design salvation, so that we will live forever with Christ

while others argue that a believer can fall away.

ignorant argument !

Yes, it is true that a believer can fall away. But I can tell they don't know how it happens. Yet they will argue blindly

Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away

it takes a while, so many years of brainwashing for someone to later believe otherwise about their faith.
These things don't happen spontaneously except the person involved does not have a human mind

Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand.

This is the truth.
Someone who is serious with Christ can never leave him for one Muhammad or Atheism or Bhudaism or whatever

So, is salvation permanent,

Salvation is permanent. It is very rare to see a change of religious affiliation

or can it be lost through sin

Which sin?

Scriptures says we are justified by our faith, not by our sin or not sinning

and unbelief?

unbelief don't just happen, it takes a while, and it is very rare to occur, though it may occur later.
And when it does, that is when we say the person has lost his salvation

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22).

This is our ultimate goal, to maintain our faith in Christ till the end. That is, till we die

Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved

what is the correlation?

while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation.

ofcourse it is possible

If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away?

salvation is eternal. Whoever want to accept Christ must believe to eternity.
Anyone who chooses to disbelief does not affect the next person who want to believe eternally.

Today we have billions of Christians worldwide. They are all living eternally

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

the only effort is not to loose your mind at any point in time, is that too hard to do?

So, it can never be hard for those who were brought up from childhood by their parents such that, it defines who they are

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

1 John said anyone born of God sinneth not simply because the seed of God is in him. Meaning a saved person cannot continue living a life of sin and lose his salvation because of it.
Hebrews 6:4-6 is about someone who continue in unbelief even after receiving enlightenment.
Mathew 24:13 Jesus described those who endure to the end are those who will be saved. Guess what, 1 John identifies the overcomer as those born of God. Anyone who is born of God will not live in sin and is already an overcomer hence will endure to the end.
What of 1 Peter 2vv 20 warning against backsliding?
Again this is actually a warning a gains false prophets and false believers.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Note they recieve the holy commandment but turned away
They know the way of righteousness but the next verse finally proved they weren't saved.

Note a washed sow still remains a sow, there is no change.
Compare that with someone who is born again, who has undergone a real spiritual change from the carnal nature into a new nature (If any man be in christ he is a new creature).
However in 2 Peter 2, the dog remains the dog and the sow remains the sow even after enlightenment meaning this individual(s) were never saved.

Can a Christian work away from his salvation?
Salvation is not what you stumbled into and later can just decide to walk away anytime.
If you can just decide to work away from salvation you should be concerned if you were saved in the first place.

What about free will?
Eternal salvation doesn't take away free will except you want to say that even in heaven after salvation there is a possibility of a future fall because of free will.


Actually even "the will" is among what God redeems.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

God works in the believer both to "will" and to "do".

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

In the book of Ezekiel, the Lord promised his people a new hear and a new spirit in the future this is opposed to the stony heart this is only possible through the regenerative work of the holy spirit which is through faith in Jesus.

gohf:

Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

sorry but salvation is not eternal life. Salvation is eternal or everlasting but not eternal life

delkuf:
I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

See how you are confusing yourself.

You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?

delkuf:
sorry but salvation is not eternal life. Salvation is eternal or everlasting but not eternal life

If you have something eg a car or house or job, if you take care of it, it would be eternal.

If you don't, you will lose it. Eg Saul, Esau, Solomon etc

delkuf:
I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

How is a man saved and when is he saved? Please use the case of the man who killed the teenager to illustrate as he right now stands guilty as charged, though a just court will still go through trial to ensure that he is found guilty under Law.

So how can he be saved and when can you say that he is saved?

Thankgod89:


This has been one of the biggest theological debates in Christianity, with both sides presenting strong biblical arguments. But what always comes to my mind is this: If someone "falls away," were they ever truly saved (1 John 2:19), or did they genuinely have salvation and later reject it?

1 John 2:19 – "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

I think one can truly be saved but later choose to reject their faith and turn away from Christ. While salvation is a gift from God, He does not force anyone to remain in it. Just as one can freely accept Christ, they can also walk away through persistent unbelief or rebellion. This is why the Bible repeatedly warns about falling away (Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

Exactly.

MaxInDHouse:

Christians are people following Jesus in thoughts,words and actions so Judas Iscariot qualified to be called a Christian.

There was a time all other disciples left Jesus and never thought of following him again but Judas stood with his other friends on Jesus' side! John 6:66-68

Judas Iscariot lost out because he failed to endure to the endure to the end of his earthly ministry...

You obviously have never heard of "moles" and double agents.

gohf:

Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

Steep:
1 John said anyone born of God sinneth not simply because the seed of God is in him. Meaning a saved person cannot continue living a life of sin and lose his salvation because of it.
Hebrews 6:4-6 is about someone who continue in unbelief even after receiving enlightenment.
Mathew 24:13 Jesus described those who endure to the end are those who will be saved. Guess what, 1 John identifies the overcomer as those born of God. Anyone who is born of God will not live in sin and is already an overcomer hence will endure to the end.
What of 1 Peter 2vv 20 warning against backsliding?
Again this is actually a warning a gains false prophets and false believers.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Note they recieve the holy commandment but turned away
They know the way of righteousness but the next verse finally proved they weren't saved.

Note a washed sow still remains a sow, there is no change.
Compare that with someone who is born again, who has undergone a real spiritual change from the carnal nature into a new nature (If any man be in christ he is a new creature).
However in 2 Peter 2, the dog remains the dog and the sow remains the sow even after enlightenment meaning this individual(s) were never saved.

Fallacy and Of Point. From the beginning to the end. All you did was use a round peg and force it into a square hole.

Steep:
Can a Christian work away from his salvation?

Off Point!

No one said a man can solely work his way to salvation.

StillDtruth:


See how you are confusing yourself.

You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?

you are lousy but I would because for others sake reply this.

So in your years of being a Christian you believe that you automatically receive the gift of eternal life after you are saved. So you think that is how it works. My brother if you don't know something try and ask.
Eternal life doesn't automatically come as after you give your life to Christ. There are things you must know and do. Even the disciples didn't immediately receive eternal life. It was after Jesus rose from the death and ascended to heaven and decended to that they received eternal life.

StillDtruth:


Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

This is what you read

Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

delkuf:
sorry but salvation is not eternal life. Salvation is eternal or everlasting but not eternal life

apology rejected

StillDtruth:


If you have something eg a car or house or job, if you take care of it, it would be eternal.

If you don't, you will lose it. Eg Saul, Esau, Solomon etc

so you can take care of something and make it eternal or make someone eternal by taking care of it.

🎉🎉 another stilly special 🌝

MaxInDHouse:

Christians are people following Jesus in thoughts,words and actions so Judas Iscariot qualified to be called a Christian.

There was a time all other disciples left Jesus and never thought of following him again but Judas stood with his other friends on Jesus' side! John 6:66-68

Judas Iscariot lost out because he failed to endure to the endure to the end of his earthly ministry.

So a Christian may lose if he did not endure to the end! Matthew 24:13

can you explain more about this salvation 🤔

gohf:
so you can take care of something and make it eternal or make someone eternal by taking care of it.

🎉🎉 another stilly special 🌝

See how you prove you are the child of the serpent who deceived female by twisting?

See how you have moved post and serpently turned it "to make it eternal" whereas, no where did I say i make things eternal. But devil pikin must behave like Devil. Continue, the time of your end draweth nigh.

gohf:

This is what you read....

I also read you saying

"Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life".

Hence the question I asked which is Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

But if you cannot answer it and continue dodging it, we understand!

delkuf:
you are lousy but I would because for others sake reply this.

So in your years of being a Christian you believe that you automatically receive the gift of eternal life after you are saved. So you think that is how it works. My brother if you don't know something try and ask....

You are shifting the post, dodging the question asked and trying reverse it and put it on me

Whereas I have asked you
"You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?"

If you cannot address this issue, we understand!

StillDtruth:


You are shifting the post, dodging the question asked and trying reverse it and put it on me

Whereas I have asked you
"You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?"

If you cannot address this issue, we understand!

when you are saved doesn't automatically mean that you have eternal life.
You are saved by believing that the Lord Jesus the son of God that came to this world to die for our sins, but for you to have eternal life there is a process you go through AFTER YOU ARE SAVED. Note words after you are saved because you like asking and twisting words

StillDtruth:


I also read you saying

"Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life".

Hence the question I asked which is Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

But if you cannot answer it and continue dodging it, we understand!

well as long as you read where I wrote salvation is eternal life 😊