NewStats: 3,259,755 , 8,170,815 topics. Date: Sunday, 25 May 2025 at 10:02 PM 412yc

I know that there are threads concerning this topic but many people are still confused. Especially when some so called Christian are meddling up.


And let's use the thieves that was crucified with Jesus as a case study.
One of the thief if you are Christ save yourself and us but he wasn't justified so he wasn't saved.
The second thief said they are being punished for there sins but Jesus is crucified for the sins of the world. He now Lord me in your kingdom. Then Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise.

What is the difference between the first thief and the second. The first thief if you Christ but he didn't really believe that Jesus is Christ. But the second said we suffering for what we did but Jesus was dying for something he didn't do. He was more or less saying that Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind. So he believed. And he said I want to be where you are. He believe that Jesus was going somewhere. He may not have a clear picture but he knows that he was going somewhere and he want to be where Jesus is. Is this not what we preached. Is this the gospel. That thief was justified by grace. He worked for it. He may have never seen the Lord Jesus. Maybe this is the first time he heard about Jesus but he believed. So salvation comes by grace not work.

delkuf:
I know that there are threads concerning this topic but many people are still confused. Especially when some so called Christian are meddling up.


And let's use the thieves that was crucified with Jesus as a case study.
One of the thief if you are Christ save yourself and us but he wasn't justified so he wasn't saved.
The second thief said they are being punished for there sins but Jesus is crucified for the sins of the world. He now Lord me in your kingdom. Then Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise.

What is the difference between the first thief and the second. The first thief if you Christ but he didn't really believe that Jesus is Christ. But the second said we suffering for what we did but Jesus was dying for something he didn't do. He was more or less saying that Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind. So he believed. And he said I want to be where you are. He believe that Jesus was going somewhere. He may not have a clear picture but he knows that he was going somewhere and he want to be where Jesus is. Is this not what we preached. Is this the gospel. That thief was justified by grace. He worked for it. He may have never seen the Lord Jesus. Maybe this is the first time he heard about Jesus but he believed. So salvation comes by grace not work.

Explain James 2:24 below.

King James Bible
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

New King James Version
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Because of his belief in Jesus

Truthseeker10:

Explain James 2:24 below.

King James Bible
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

New King James Version
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

You this man 😂

The works he is saying here is works of love

Truthseeker10:

Explain James 2:24 below.

King James Bible
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

New King James Version
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

You went and quoted just verse 24 just to cause confusion as you are known for on this forum
This is the works James was talking about
14. What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don't show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15. Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16. and you say, "Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well"-- but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? 17. So you see, faith by itself isn't enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. (Jas 2: 14-17)

Sirmwill:

You this man 😂

The works he is saying here is works of love

So if James was talking about "works of love" in james 2:24, what kind of "work" does the op said that salvation does not come by?

Truthseeker10:

Explain James 2:24 below.

King James Bible
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

New King James Version
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

we are saved by what the Lord Jesus did on the cross.

Sirmwill:

You this man 😂

The works he is saying here is works of love

they keep comparing the work of faith to salvation. In faith we are to work it out. But in salvation we believe the finished work of Christ on the cross

Truthseeker10:

So if James was talking about "works of love" in james 2:24, what kind of "work" does the op said that salvation does not come by?

Salvation itself is free and embedded in believing

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16

A man is not saved by his works of love,a man is saved by believing in Jesus and a man is righteous by his works of love


The works that James was talking about was justification(righteousness)(doing the right thing in a situation)

So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: New Living Translation]
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: American King James Version]
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: NIV UK 2011]
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: ESV English Standard Version]
Ye se then how that of dedes a man is iustified and not of fayth only. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: Tyndale Bible]
You see that a man is pronounced righteous because of works and not because of faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: The Riverside New Testament]

You see, a man is a good man because of the things he does, and not just because he believes. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: Bible in Worldwide English]

The works(of love) make a man good, righteous,justified not "brings salvation to a man" or "saves a man"!!!

delkuf:
I know that there are threads concerning this topic but many people are still confused. Especially when some so called Christian are meddling up.


And let's use the thieves that was crucified with Jesus as a case study.
One of the thief if you are Christ save yourself and us but he wasn't justified so he wasn't saved.
The second thief said they are being punished for there sins but Jesus is crucified for the sins of the world. He now Lord me in your kingdom. Then Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise.

What is the difference between the first thief and the second. The first thief if you Christ but he didn't really believe that Jesus is Christ. But the second said we suffering for what we did but Jesus was dying for something he didn't do. He was more or less saying that Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind. So he believed. And he said I want to be where you are. He believe that Jesus was going somewhere. He may not have a clear picture but he knows that he was going somewhere and he want to be where Jesus is. Is this not what we preached. Is this the gospel. That thief was justified by grace. He worked for it. He may have never seen the Lord Jesus. Maybe this is the first time he heard about Jesus but he believed. So salvation comes by grace not work.

The thief couldn’t fast, be baptized, or do good deeds—yet Jesus saved him instantly because of his faith.

Just like Romans 10:9 teaches, the thief was saved by confessing and believing in Jesus, showing that faith alone is enough for salvation

Sirmwill:



Salvation itself is free and embedded in believing

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16

A man is not saved by his works of love,a man is saved by believing in Jesus and a man is righteous by his works of love


The works that James was talking about was justification(righteousness)(doing the right thing in a situation)

So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: New Living Translation]
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: American King James Version]
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: NIV UK 2011]
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: ESV English Standard Version]
Ye se then how that of dedes a man is iustified and not of fayth only. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: Tyndale Bible]
You see that a man is pronounced righteous because of works and not because of faith alone. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: The Riverside New Testament]

You see, a man is a good man because of the things he does, and not just because he believes. (Jas 2: 24)

[Source: Bible in Worldwide English]

The works(of love) make a man good, righteous,justified not "brings salvation to a man" or "saves a man"!!!

So we don't need "works of love" to be saved?
Explain James 2:26 below. What happens to faith without works?


King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New King James Version
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

delkuf:

we are saved by what the Lord Jesus did on the cross.

So all humans are saved, right?

delkuf:
they keep comparing the work of faith to salvation. In faith we are to work it out. But in salvation we believe the finished work of Christ on the cross

"He does not believe that does not live according to his belief". Sigmund Freud

So Truthseeker has reminded you that James 2:24 tells you "work and faith".

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

delkuf:
they keep comparing the work of faith to salvation. In faith we are to work it out. But in salvation we believe the finished work of Christ on the cross

He does not believe that does not live according to his belief". Sigmund

delkuf:
they keep comparing the work of faith to salvation. In faith we are to work it out. But in salvation we believe the finished work of Christ on the cross

What's the difference between faith and belief?

MaxInDHouse:

So all humans are saved, right?

do all humans believe in the cross

StillDtruth:


"He does not believe that does not live according to his belief". Sigmund Freud

So Truthseeker has reminded you that James 2:24 tells you "work and faith".

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

this does not imply to salvation. Apostle James was talking about faith. Faith without work is dead. Don't mix the two together

Truthseeker10:

What's the difference between faith and belief?

well I don't know

delkuf:
well I don't know

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Thankgod89:


The thief couldn’t fast, be baptized, or do good deeds—yet Jesus saved him instantly because of his faith.

Just like Romans 10:9 teaches, the thief was saved by confessing and believing in Jesus, showing that faith alone is enough for salvation

thank you for this. Maybe this was he has heard about Jesus but he saved. I pray for the grace in my life

Truthseeker10:

So we don't need "works of love" to be saved?
Explain James 2:26 below. What happens to faith without works?


King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New King James Version
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

what did he explained up there. You ask nonsense questions

Kobojunkie:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

tell me the difference. I dont know

delkuf:
well I don't know

😂😂😂wahala....faith will not save us but believe will save us according to you. Na wa oo.

delkuf:
this does not imply to salvation. Apostle James was talking about faith. Faith without work is dead. Don't mix the two together

Does justification not imply salvation?

StillDtruth:


Does justification not imply salvation?

you are saved before you are justified. You are not justified and then you become saved.
You have believe in the work of the Lord Jesus on cross open to it and you are saved. The work and the blood of Jesus will wash you and justified from all wrong doings. Then you can stand righteous in the sight of God

Truthseeker10:

😂😂😂wahala....faith will not save us but believe will save us according to you. Na wa oo.

what is the difference between faith and believe. Explain

delkuf:
tell me the difference. I dont know

A more pressing question is how you came to conclude that the man on the cross was saved.

Jesus Christ of Israel did not employ the term saved or any of its synonyms in the context of that conversation on the cross with the thief hanging there beside him. Jesus Christ of Israel also did not allude to the man having any special benefits bestowed on that man beyond what Jesus Christ of Israel proclaimed would take place that very same day to the man and His person. Before that conversation on the cross, we learned from Jesus Christ of Israel that when the day when He would be handed to the foreigners came around He would be found in the grave — He would die that day. Jesus Christ of Israel also insisted that He would be in the grave for 2 days after that — 3 days in the grave. It should then follow that when Jesus Christ of Israel announced to the man on the cross that he— the thief— would be with Him— Jesus Christ of Israel— in a place referred to as Paradise that same day what Jesus Christ of Israel meant was that the man would, along with Jesus Christ, die that same day.

---

NB: in Paradise seems to have been used by Jesus Christ of Israel as a sort of euphemism as an indirect expression representing "the grave" or "death".

---

Now back to the question which is where do you get this notion, from what Jesus Christ of Israel in fact said to the man that Jesus Christ of Israel instead meant that the thief was saved?

Kobojunkie:
A more pressing question is how you came to conclude that the man on the cross was saved.

Jesus Christ of Israel did not employ the term saved or any of its synonyms in the context of that conversation on the cross with the thief hanging there beside him. Jesus Christ of Israel also did not allude to the man having any special benefits bestowed on that man beyond what Jesus Christ of Israel proclaimed would take place that very same day to the man and His person. Before that conversation on the cross, we learned from Jesus Christ of Israel that when the day when He would be handed to the foreigners came around He would be found in the grave — He would die that day. Jesus Christ of Israel also insisted that He would be in the grave for 2 days after that — 3 days in the grave. It should then follow that when Jesus Christ of Israel announced to the man on the cross that he— the thief— would be with Him— Jesus Christ of Israel— in a place referred to as Paradise that same day what Jesus Christ of Israel meant was that the man would, along with Jesus Christ, die that same day.

---

NB: in Paradise seems to have been used by Jesus Christ of Israel as a sort of euphemism as an indirect expression representing "the grave" or "death".

---

Now back to the question which is where do you get this notion, from what Jesus Christ of Israel in fact said to the man that Jesus Christ of Israel instead meant that the thief was saved?

you were laughing that I don't know the difference between faith and beliefs. So let us stick to that. What is the difference between faith and beliefs

delkuf:
➜you were laughing that I don't know the difference between faith and beliefs. So let us stick to that. What is the difference between faith and beliefs

You don't understand the difference between this faith and belief but you are here adamant that you have salvation figured out, huh? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

delkuf:
I know that there are threads concerning this topic but many people are still confused. Especially when some so called Christian are meddling up.


And let's use the thieves that was crucified with Jesus as a case study.
One of the thief if you are Christ save yourself and us but he wasn't justified so he wasn't saved.
The second thief said they are being punished for there sins but Jesus is crucified for the sins of the world. He now Lord me in your kingdom. Then Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise.

What is the difference between the first thief and the second. The first thief if you Christ but he didn't really believe that Jesus is Christ. But the second said we suffering for what we did but Jesus was dying for something he didn't do. He was more or less saying that Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind. So he believed. And he said I want to be where you are. He believe that Jesus was going somewhere. He may not have a clear picture but he knows that he was going somewhere and he want to be where Jesus is. Is this not what we preached. Is this the gospel. That thief was justified by grace. He worked for it. He may have never seen the Lord Jesus. Maybe this is the first time he heard about Jesus but he believed. So salvation comes by grace not work.

What was his name?

Kobojunkie:
You don't understand the difference between this faith and belief but you are here adamant that you have salvation figured out, huh? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

you tell me the difference now. Stop going round and round. Simply tell me the difference between faith and beliefs.

delkuf:
you tell me the difference now. Stop going round and round. Simply tell me the difference between faith and beliefs.

If you don't first understand salvation in the context of the book you quote from, how can you understand faith or belief in the context of that same book?