NewStats: 3,263,924 , 8,181,901 topics. Date: Sunday, 08 June 2025 at 07:15 PM 6j3a2f

Thankgod89:



What do you mean by contradiction? Are you saying you know more than the translators? You’re adding punctuation to fit your own interpretation, Very good!

If salvation is only for those who practice what Jesus taught, then what exactly is salvation? Someone said it’s a reward, but I'm going that way.

My brother, salvation comes by grace through faith

Salvation is not solely for those who practice what Jesus taught. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Jesus Christ. However, genuine salvation will produce a desire to obey Jesus' teachings: As we grow in our relationship with Jesus, we'll increasingly want to follow His teachings and live according to His will.

Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Faith in Jesus has WORKS that has to do with what Jesus taught {James 2:26} so if someone say he believes in Jesus yet had nothing doing to prove it his faith is dead.
the man who came to Jesus to ask of what he must do to be saved Jesus didn't just say "believe in me" because the man already believe that's why he called Jesus 'Lord' kneeling respectfully before Jesus yet Jesus told him what he must do but the man can't do it so do you think this man can be saved? Did he believe in Jesus? If he believes then why did Jesus say the man can't be saved? Luke 18:18-23

So faith in Christ Jesus comes with works of faith that's what Paul meant! Hebrews 10:24

MaxInDHouse:


Faith in Jesus has WORKS that has to do with what Jesus taught {James 2:26} so if someone say he believes in Jesus yet had nothing doing to prove it his faith is dead.
the man who came to Jesus to ask of what he must do to be saved Jesus didn't just say "believe in me" because the man already believe that's why he called Jesus 'Lord' kneeling respectfully before Jesus yet Jesus told him what he must do but the man can't do it so do you think this man can be saved? Did he believe in Jesus? If he believes then why did Jesus say the man can't be saved? Luke 18:18-23

So faith in Christ Jesus comes with works of faith that's what Paul meant! Hebrews 10:24

You're absolutely right that faith in Jesus is not just about believing but also about living out that faith through actions. James 2:26 makes it clear: "Faith without works is dead." True faith produces obedience to Christ's teachings.

In Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler believed in Jesus enough to seek His guidance, but when Jesus asked him to sell his possessions and follow Him, he couldn't do it. His faith was incomplete because he wasn't willing to act on it. Jesus’ challenge exposed where his true trust was—his wealth, not God.

In Hebrews 10:24, Paul urges believers to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds." Faith is demonstrated through love, obedience, and good works—not to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine trust in Christ.

Thankgod89:

You're absolutely right that faith in Jesus is not just about believing but also about living out that faith through actions. James 2:26 makes it clear: "Faith without works is dead." True faith produces obedience to Christ's teachings.
In Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler believed in Jesus enough to seek His guidance, but when Jesus asked him to sell his possessions and follow Him, he couldn't do it. His faith was incomplete because he wasn't willing to act on it. Jesus’ challenge exposed where his true trust was—his wealth, not God.
In Hebrews 10:24, Paul urges believers to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds." Faith is demonstrated through love, obedience, and good works—not to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine trust in Christ.

So the thief and all those who lived before John the baptist must prove their loyalty to Christ during the 1,000 years of Jesus' reign that's what Jesus meant when he said:

Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. Matthew 11:11

All those that live before John the baptist like Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, David, Elijah, Daniel and others were declared righteous which means they will be resurrected in Paradise but they've not qualified for everlasting life until are taught what Jesus said and put it to practice that is when they can qualify for everlasting life.

For now the only people who are saved are the 144,000 born again Christians who participated in the first resurrection because they are going straight to heaven where Satan can't reach again {Revelations 12:10-12} they got this through laying down their lives for the good news! Revelations 12:11

They will remain forever there like angels {Luke 20:34-36} but those who will inherit everlasting life on earth has the prospect of renovating the earth into a Paradise when all evildoers are gone for good! Psalms 37:9-11

James 3:1 Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged by God with greater strictness.


When a person calls the vastiness of testimonies written by the apostles, 'excessive scriptures' that cannot turn their falsehood into the truth, it shows they reject the testimony for their personal believe. When people believe their own teachings against the truth of God, they first start with a conclusion even while accusing others of insisting to be right.

For example: After so much effort, the conclusion remains the same: “Salvation is free for the children of God.”


Whose effort? Yet this person also claims, "Let me be clear—I am not here to "win" a debate but to present what Scripture teaches." Even when they have ignored repeatedly what is written, calling it excessive and that it cannot change their view. Is this not an example of false humility? They speak of their efforts and pretend to present what the scripture teaches, this is false humility.


One evidence of false humility is self justification
"I love discussing the Bible, not with an attitude of knowing it all, but with a humble heart, willing to learn."

Love discussing the bible, and the scriptures quoted are excessive for you to discuss but it's okay for you to quote them and attach your conclusion to them without no form of explanation and expect it to be accepted as the truth.

Someone who claims they are willing to learn, said the scriptures posted were excessive and cannot change their view. I don't know what the attitude of knowing it all is, but when a person makes a mistake and even when it is pointed out, they avoid it, they don't have the humility to acknowledge it. And I am not talking about scriptural mistake, simple casual day to day normal human mistakes, nobody would kill you for it, but when you are highminded even a simple correction will be taken the wrong way.

This is what Paul wrote "soterian katergazesthe" which means achieve salvation, bring about salvation, effect through labor salvation, work out salvation all in line with his onition to continually obey God

And this is my personal opinion, am I the author of Philipians 2:12?

Romans 6:23 for the opsonia of sin is death but the charisma of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Charisma means grace and even deliverance while doron means gift. And even at that you may not want to accept that the grace of God is eternal life, you may continue to tell yourself it's free irrespective of all that is taught in the new testament concerning our inheritance.

But still Romans 6, Paul continues his message on grace having revealed in chapter 5 that through Adam's sin we die but through the grace of Jesus Christ we live, writing in Romans 5:21 that grace might reign not through sinfulness but through righteousness to bring eternal life, to result to eternal life, which is the salvation of our souls. Instead of Paul saying you got anything for free, he tells us you have now become a slave to God and no more of sin, so instead of working for sin you shouldn't work for God.


The book of Hebrews say there are bastards who do not know the discipline of God.. which purpose is to work and bring us to obedience unto salvation, unto eternal life that we may live.

You can choose to obey God and receive his approval, obedience that leads to righteousness, you choose to serve righteousness so that you can be holy. Did you read verse 22 or Romans 6

Rom.6.22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. (NLT)


Why would you jump and avoid the verses, the devil avoided the first verses of Psalm 91 and quoted something to Jesus and told him to jump off the roof.

Many of you believing the lie of the devil are tempting God with your nonsense excuse of what you believe.

It has already been revealed that those who deserved to be saved are those who do God's will and live according to His desire, which is for us to do what is right and to love others. God will not save those filled with hatred and wickedness who refused to change.


Titus 3
Someone who wants to learn would realize the fruit is the fruit of the Holy Spirit who seals us into salvation.

We once bad lives but when the kindness and love of God showed up, according to His mercy, He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

To understand what Paul wrote here, you need to recall that John wrote in the gospels that Jesus called the living water the gift of God, which is the Holy Spirit, which does what

John.4.14b It becomes a perpetual spring within them, giving them eternal life."

You can see the agreement that God is working in you, the Spirit of God is in you to do his will and bear fruit. And we did not receive the Spirit of God because we did something for it, it was actually what Jesus did, that's it is by God's mercy.


So God sent Jesus to us not because of anything humans did but because of his mercy and he saves us through the work of the Holy Spirit, which is given to us because of what Jesus did and we are set free because of his grace so that we might inherit eternal life, so that we MIGHT become heirs having the hope and expectation for eternal life.

So because of the Holy Spirit we have a new life upon the earth with a goal for eternal life. And because that is our goal, the next verse in Titus 3

Titus.3.8 - These things I have told you are all true. I want you to insist on them so that everyone who trusts in God will be careful to do good deeds all the time. These things are good and beneficial for everyone.
Titus.3.9 - Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These kinds of things are useless and a waste of time.
Titus.3.11 - For people like that have turned away from the truth. They are sinning, and they condemn themselves.


Thankgod89 if you like drop any verse from the bible, the whole chapter and even the book will be searched and taught. We are not afraid of the volume of God's word this is what we are called to do.


Jesus said in John.10.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me,...

Now when does he give us eternal life?

John.5.25 - "And I assure you that the time is coming, in fact it is here, when the dead will hear my voice--the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live.
John.5.28 - Don't be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God's Son,
John.5.29 - and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to judgment.
John.5.30 - But I do nothing without consulting the Father. I judge as I am told. And my judgment is absolutely just, because it is according to the will of God who sent me; it is not merely my own.


Jesus himself says recorded by John, says THOSE WHO HAVE DONE GOOD I WILL GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE.

Thankgod89:


If salvation is only for those who practice what Jesus taught, then what exactly is salvation? Someone said it’s a reward, but I'm going that way.

My brother, salvation comes by grace through faith

Salvation is not solely for those who practice what Jesus taught. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Jesus Christ. However, genuine salvation will produce a desire to obey Jesus' teachings: As we grow in our relationship with Jesus, we'll increasingly want to follow His teachings and live according to His will.

Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

look I am not interested in your conversation with Maxindhouse and him propagating his church's doctrines, because he cares more about that than what is actually in the new testament. I am quoting you because do you realize you don't know what salvation is.. because if you did you would also know what Jesus taught.

You don't know what Jesus taught and you probably don't even do it, because you believe a lie that salvation is free.

Jesus taught us to love, Jesus taught us to be merciful.

You hear and read the story of the criminal that received the promise of eternal life from Jesus and you don't see love there, you don't see mercy. Matt 27 said they both mocked him, but it seems at some point one of them repented and stopped mocking him

Salvation is a gift, salvation is a gift why didn't Jesus give it to the other criminal that mocked him and behaved wickedly, and had no sympathy. Did that criminal not say Jesus you are the Messiah oya save yourself and us as well, why was he ignored. It's a free gift right. Does he need to fear God to receive his salvation like the other criminal asked him, don't you fear God..


You are asking what was the obedience he did to receive salvation, okay as you are answering tell us what obedience he did after he received the salvation?

gohf:
look I am not interested in your conversation with Maxindhouse and him propagating his church's doctrines, because he cares more about that than what is actually in the new testament.

I didn't mention any church here rather i presented what i believe using the Bible as evidence so if what you believe is not taught anywhere that's your own cup of coffee not mine!

gohf:


When a person calls the vastiness of testimonies written by the apostles, 'excessive scriptures' that cannot turn their falsehood into the truth, it shows they reject the testimony for their personal believe. When people believe their own teachings against the truth of God, they first start with a conclusion even while accusing others of insisting to be right.

When I say that simply quoting excessive Scriptures cannot turn falsehood into truth, I am not calling Scripture falsehood. Rather, I am addressing your claim that salvation is a reward while using Scripture out of context to it. Stop misrepresenting my words and portraying me as someone who disrespects the Word of God. If you believe salvation is a reward for good works, that is your view—but to me, it is a distortion of the truth.

gohf:
😊 hope you learn, ask, contribute and bless us

I've seen your arguments, but cant really tell where you stand. Are you for or against ?

MaxInDHouse:


So the thief and all those who lived before John the baptist must prove their loyalty to Christ during the 1,000 years of Jesus' reign that's what Jesus meant when he said:

Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. Matthew 11:11

All those that live before John the baptist like Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, David, Elijah, Daniel and others were declared righteous which means they will be resurrected in Paradise but they've not qualified for everlasting life until are taught what Jesus said and put it to practice that is when they can qualify for everlasting life.

For now the only people who are saved are the 144,000 born again Christians who participated in the first resurrection because they are going straight to heaven where Satan can't reach again {Revelations 12:10-12} they got this through laying down their lives for the good news! Revelations 12:11

They will remain forever there like angels {Luke 20:34-36} but those who will inherit everlasting life on earth has the prospect of renovating the earth into a Paradise when all evildoers are gone for good! Psalms 37:9-11

I sense that you may be a Jehovah’s Witness based on your discussion, but I want to clarify that salvation is not limited to just 144,000 people. Revelation 7:9 speaks of "a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, tribe, people, and language," indicating a much larger group of saved individuals.

Thankgod89:

I sense that you may be a Jehovah’s Witness based on your discussion, but I want to clarify that salvation is not limited to just 144,000 people. Revelation 7:9 speaks of "a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, tribe, people, and language," indicating a much larger group of saved individuals.

You are right but the additional great crowd are those that survived Satan's last test only 144,000 will not experience Satan's final test that's what i'm saying!

MaxInDHouse:


You are right but the additional great crowd are those that survived Satan's last test only 144,000 will not experience Satan's final test that's what i'm saying!

Where do you get the idea that the 144,000 are completely free from Satan’s final test? Any biblical reference?

Are you suggesting that the great multitude only consists of those who remain faithful after Satan’s final test? If so, how do you interpret Revelation 7:14, which describes them as coming out of the great tribulation?

ShawttySoFyne:
I've seen your arguments, but cant really tell where you stand. Are you for or against ?

for or against what?

gohf:
for or against what?

@gohf is salvation not free.

Thankgod89:

Where do you get the idea that the 144,000 are completely free from Satan’s final test? Any biblical reference?

The first resurrection belongs to the 144,000 that were declared saved after them comes the great crowd biblical reference is Revelations 20:4-6

Thankgod89:

Are you suggesting that the great multitude only consists of those who remain faithful after Satan’s final test? If so, how do you interpret Revelation 7:14, which describes them as coming out of the great tribulation?

It's self explanatory they survived Satan's final test!

delkuf:
@gohf is salvation not free.

SALVATION IS NOT FOR FREE

ShawttySoFyne:
I've seen your arguments, but cant really tell where you stand. Are you for or against ?

did you read the Bible texts, was it saying salvation is free?

If you're given free education do you need to study?

Thankgod89:


You're absolutely right that faith in Jesus is not just about believing but also about living out that faith through actions. James 2:26 makes it clear: "Faith without works is dead." True faith produces obedience to Christ's teachings.

In Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler believed in Jesus enough to seek His guidance, but when Jesus asked him to sell his possessions and follow Him, he couldn't do it. His faith was incomplete because he wasn't willing to act on it. Jesus’ challenge exposed where his true trust was—his wealth, not God.

In Hebrews 10:24, Paul urges believers to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds." Faith is demonstrated through love, obedience, and good works—not to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine trust in Christ.

you cal his faith "incomplete" can such faith save him?

You are pathetically avoiding the verses I mentioned, let me mention one of them again....

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


Can you answer James as well

Brenbentondiaz:
If you're given free education do you need to study?

if you re given 10,000,000 you need to use it to get some, say you build a house with it that house is the result of you using the gift.

You are given free education but are you given free medical licence?

Well you can also show us where we are taught to use salvation to achieve something else and what that sometime else is.

gohf:
you cal his faith "incomplete" can such faith save him?

You are pathetically avoiding the verses I mentioned, let me mention one of them again....

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


Can you answer James as well

James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Thankgod89:


James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

gohf:
so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

I fully affirm what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

This means salvation is entirely a gift from God, not something we earn through works. However, as Ephesians 2:10 immediately follows, Paul also states:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Faith saves, but the faith that saves is not without works—it produces obedience.

When James asks, "Can such faith save him?" (James 2:14), he is referring to a dead faith, one that is mere confession without action. James is not saying that works earn salvation, but that true faith results in obedience. This aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught:

"If you love me, keep my commands." (John 14:15)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father." (Matthew 7:21)


Obedience proves salvation, but it does not cause it.

Do I Contradict Paul and James?

No, because Paul and James are addressing different issues:

Paul argues against works-based righteousness (Romans 3:28).

James argues against empty faith that lacks evidence (James 2:17).


They do not contradict but complement each other—true faith saves, but true faith is always demonstrated by works.

Salvation is free in the sense that we cannot earn it (Romans 6:23). But accepting Christ means submitting to Him as Lord, which naturally results in obedience. A faith that does not obey is not real faith—it is dead (James 2:26).

So, I’m not teaching that obedience is unnecessary. I’m teaching that obedience flows from genuine faith—it is the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for earning it.



Hello, please, I'm tired of this long discussion. If salvation isn't free for you, then good luck. Stop mentioning me in things I've already explained. Even others are questioning your understanding of salvation because your arguments seem strange to them.

You don't give salvation to anyone, so why are you forcing incorrect teachings just to prove a point?

Please, let me be.

Thankgod89:


I fully affirm what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

This means salvation is entirely a gift from God, not something we earn through works. However, as Ephesians 2:10 immediately follows, Paul also states:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Faith saves, but the faith that saves is not without works—it produces obedience.

When James asks, "Can such faith save him?" (James 2:14), he is referring to a dead faith, one that is mere confession without action. James is not saying that works earn salvation, but that true faith results in obedience. This aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught:

"If you love me, keep my commands." (John 14:15)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father." (Matthew 7:21)


Obedience proves salvation, but it does not cause it.

Do I Contradict Paul and James?

No, because Paul and James are addressing different issues:

Paul argues against works-based righteousness (Romans 3:28).

James argues against empty faith that lacks evidence (James 2:17).


They do not contradict but complement each other—true faith saves, but true faith is always demonstrated by works.

Salvation is free in the sense that we cannot earn it (Romans 6:23). But accepting Christ means submitting to Him as Lord, which naturally results in obedience. A faith that does not obey is not real faith—it is dead (James 2:26).

So, I’m not teaching that obedience is unnecessary. I’m teaching that obedience flows from genuine faith—it is the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for earning it.



Hello, please, I'm tired of this long discussion. If salvation isn't free for you, then good luck. Stop mentioning me in things I've already explained. Even others are questioning your understanding of salvation because your arguments seem strange to them.

You don't give salvation to anyone, so why are you forcing incorrect teachings just to prove a point?

Please, let me be.

so if a man confesses he believes in Jesus and he does not show love nor mercy to those in need and he dies, will he be saved or is he already saved because of his belief?

Let me not let ignorance parade itself as the truth when I know the consequences of such error is destruction of souls.

When a person believes salvation is free, a case like the one delkuf was asking why people go to church and still live in sin, becomes more common and they obviously claim they believe in Jesus and they were taught that's all they needed.

Now some of the questions I asked thankgod were not answered and basically avoided like usually but that's okay. Instead of speaking the truth, trying to discourage others by pointing to some public opinion. Whereas our confidence should come from God's word and not parroting what others say. There is nothing strange about the truth to those who know God and His word.

One of the things that can destroy a person's soul is when they say well, because we are created in Christ for good works, so therefore "This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it."

Now without understanding what new creation is, what new life we have in Christ, or what being born again is, one may assume oh well I am saved already let me live life in gratitude to God and not obligated to him. Well we have to be grateful for the gift of Jesus but we still have to obtain salvation. I quoting Paul who said we were slaves to God but that's just one of those things ignored by some and called strange. A person blinded by lies finds the truth strange.

Let's read

1Thess.5.9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

honestly you cannot properly understand new creation without understanding what true faith in God is and what it brings.

Like Peter wrote; 1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Now Paul writes about being God's work being created in Christ, now why do you think that Paul began to explain after he wrote about our new creation that though we were strangers and foreigners before, but now we are not so anyone, it's because the purpose of the new creation is to bring us into the body Christ where the work towards our salvation commences. Let us not think that because God has brought us into Christ that means we are saved. While some are corrupting God's word with few verses, I am and have been trying to use the whole gospel and new testament. Did Jesus not say that any in me that doesn't bear fruit the father would cut off and burn. Did Paul not warn against the arrogance of believing that because you have been grafted in, means you will remain giving the examples of the natural branches that were cut off.

We should be wary of those who change the words of Jesus slyly, writing things like obedience proves salvation without questioning, is that what is written there, is that what is insinuated there and taught by Jesus?

Before if you do not obtain what you don't have with what God has given you, you will be left wanting having been deceived by the devil that you already have salvation free. If destruction and salvation was for free, then you believe God to be wicked to destroy anyone for free without them doing anything to deserve it.

When someone says only true faith can save a man and true faith brings about obedience and without obedience it is dead faith that cannot save a man. Does that not clearly show us that without obedience to God no one can be saved?!

This is the simple question and the basis of what I have written from the onset, salvation is based on works our works of obeying God through the gift He has given us which enables us to obey Him. And destruction is based on disobedience and wickedness.

What is obedience if it is not the work and fruit of the Holy Spirit, James literally gave an example of loving and caring for others. Paul wrote faith expressing itself through love in Gal. And in Corinthians he wrote, if we have faith and love we are nothing.

Can we be saved without love, we can't. If we love it means we obeyed. Our obedience proves we love Jesus, if you love me obey me.

Mixing up faith and salvation is a sign that one like James should not teach others. Saved through faith, and faith results in obedience yet why is it that some refuse to accept the truth, is it because they do not trust God's help or His promise of salvation and eternal life?

A person can quote Rom.3.28 to confuse you
"So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."

but being justified is an effect being shown mercy and set free through faith and not by the laws of Moses doesn't mean justification is salvation and it also doesn't mean that because we don't follow the laws of Moses we are not expected to obey God. You can go ahead and study the chapter 3 and book of Romans.

Jesus taught a parable of a king who set a man free but because that man failed to be merciful to his fellow servant he was sent into darkness.

If you continue to listen to those who teach you that salvation is free for the wicked and you deceive yourself into thinking you are saved despite your wickedness, all that awaits you is destruction.

gohf:
did you read the Bible texts, was it saying salvation is free?

Okay, we've been treating this topic since the beginning of this month and it's quite lengthy so I'll just do a quick summary.
It has been acknowledged that salvation came through Christ and it was paid for by grace through Christ and yes it is a gift.
At salvation you became a son, welcomed into God's family and lineage, you have the righteousness of God and right standing with God, you're an ambassador of Christ etc.
There was also the phases of salvation... starting from how man was created, the soul, spirit and body etc.
I'll focus on the spirit for this though.
When you became born again, God didn't give birth to your flesh again, obviously. Its your spirit that changed his source at salvation cus God himself is a spirit. When man fell his Spirit was corrupted and lacked the capacity to do the will of God.
At salvation God took out that spirit and put a new spirit and that spirit bears witness with the new spirit that you're a child of God.
Romans 8;16,eze 36v26-27
Your spirit got saved, perfected at salvation, nothing to be added or taken away.
When we say you're righteous or a child of God, we're referring to your Spirit cus your body is still a source of the father of your flesh. Your thinking may not have changed as the thinking of a righteous man, but your spirit is saved when you become born again. It doesn't change the state of your emotions (soul) or things you used to like before you became born again but as you begin to spend time with the word, fellowship with God in private and in church, pray in the spirit etc your thought pattern begins to change.
Now might I add that I'm an evidence that it is true. As I'm doing all these there are apparent changes. I'm not there yet but it's a process.
In dealing with the Salvation of your soul is what we call "work out your salvation" when you work out your salvation you're causing what's already there to be expressive, manifested . Phill 2:12-13
Your spirit wants to serve God and fulfill God's plan for your life, within your spirit the will of God is there but you have to work it out by renewing your mind. You change your former thought to the new thought that is aligned to who you are now (a new creature) you're permitted now not to take your genealogy from the father of your flesh, I mean separating yourself from the experiences of came from the father of your flesh or lineage and conform yourself to the realities that comes from the father of your spirit.
That's why the bible says that in Christ you're a new creature cause every man alive has a spirit attached to the devil but now you're born again, inside us our spirit is different even if we look alike.
The two witnesses that proves you're saved is the word of God (what it says about Salvation in acts 16v30-31) and the holy spirit. He is our assurance that we belong to God and are going to heaven.
(By the way your Christianity should be about knowing God in the first not cus of where you're going) Romans 8v16, ephs 1:13-14 it says we're sealed with the promised holy spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession for the praise of his glory. You can't earn heaven by your works , we all sin and when you do yes you should acknowledge that it is not in your new nature , repent and forge ahead because Jesus already washed you, but sometimes we even sin unknowingly. Example if God asks you to do something and you don't you've disobeyed which is a sin.
Does that mean the person is going to hell for that? Of course not.
No man is perfect except God.
The fact that I haven't been on NL in years, but for some reason I was led here and I came across your thread when we've treating the same topic in church.
Coindence, maybe or maybe God wants me to tell you this to experience freedom perhaps.
You'd probably turn this around and say maybe I'm the one to see your own view, but that mere fact that we all fall short of God's glory..."All have sinned" "He that is without sin cast the first stone"
There's also the question "should you go on sinning cus Jesus already paid the price?" Of course not.
Towards the ending of Romans 5 and 6 talks about that one.
Its a whole topic on its own.

This topic of salvation has a lot more that can't be written here, it's a whole series and I just tried to pick here and there from what we've been taught so far so I'm sure I'm a bit all around.
This week we'll be taught on how to renew our mind to work out that Salvation so that salvation won't just be a gift on the shelf but a life we're living.

gohf:
😊 hope you learn, ask, contribute and bless us

By the way I searched for Philippians 2:12-13 and this came up, I mean even AI knows it doesn't mean earning...check the emboldened

AI Overview

Philippians 2:12-13 urges believers to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling," emphasizing that God is the one who empowers both the desire and the ability to act according to His good purpose.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Context:
Paul is writing to the church in Philippi, encouraging them to live lives worthy of their calling in Christ.
"Work Out Your Salvation":
This phrase doesn't mean earning salvation through works, but rather living out the salvation that God has already given through faith in Jesus.
"With Fear and Trembling":
This phrase signifies a reverent and humble attitude, recognizing that all good comes from God and not from ourselves.
"God Works in You":
The verse emphasizes that God is the source of both the desire (to will) and the power (to act) to live a life pleasing to Him.
"According to His Good Purpose":
God has a plan for each believer's life, and He empowers them to live it out.
In essence, Philippians 2:12-13 reminds believers to:
Live out their faith consistently, not just when it's convenient or when others are watching.
Recognize that their ability to obey God comes from His grace and power, not their own strength.
Live with humility and reverence, acknowledging that all good comes from God.

ShawttySoFyne:

By the way I searched for Philippians 2:12-13 and this came up, I mean even AI knows it doesn't mean earning...check the emboldened

AI Overview

Philippians 2:12-13 urges believers to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling," emphasizing that God is the one who empowers both the desire and the ability to act according to His good purpose.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Context:
Paul is writing to the church in Philippi, encouraging them to live lives worthy of their calling in Christ.
"Work Out Your Salvation":
This phrase doesn't mean earning salvation through works, but rather living out the salvation that God has already given through faith in Jesus.
"With Fear and Trembling":
This phrase signifies a reverent and humble attitude, recognizing that all good comes from God and not from ourselves.
"God Works in You":
The verse emphasizes that God is the source of both the desire (to will) and the power (to act) to live a life pleasing to Him.
"According to His Good Purpose":
God has a plan for each believer's life, and He empowers them to live it out.
In essence, Philippians 2:12-13 reminds believers to:
Live out their faith consistently, not just when it's convenient or when others are watching.
Recognize that their ability to obey God comes from His grace and power, not their own strength.
Live with humility and reverence, acknowledging that all good comes from God.

I dunno the AI you are referring to exactly o, but I also typed in the same search you claimed you imputed.

Now AI doesn't think it just gives you the "popular or common" response concerning a subject.

You don't expect the AI to go to the original Greek text and give you what you did not ask for. Now you can either listen to an AI or you ask the Holy Spirit if you have to obey God to receive eternal life. Now you can decide to check what katergazesthe means

ShawttySoFyne:
Okay, we've been treating this topic since the beginning of this month and it's quite lengthy so I'll just do a quick summary.
It has been acknowledged that salvation came through Christ and it was paid for by grace through Christ and yes it is a gift.

okay I dont really like post splitting but I want you to see what i am specifically responding to.

Now I agree with you that salvation comes through Jesus Christ of Nazareth, because through Jesus comes grace and truth like John wrote and by grace we are saved, but when you say "it" is a gift, you have to realize that the essence of my posts were to show what exactly Paul was referring to as the gift, which doesn't disagree with us working out our salvation and our requirements to obey God as Jesus taught us as well. Therefore dismissing the erroneous believe that salvation is a gift and not that salvation is through God's gift, for God gave us Jesus and not salvation, we have to believe and choose to be saved, it is not forced on anyway, we have to pick up our cross and follow Jesus. So hopefully your quick summary shows you understand what has been written.

At salvation you became a son, welcomed into God's family and lineage, you have the righteousness of God and right standing with God, you're an ambassador of Christ etc.
There was also the phases of salvation... starting from how man was created, the soul, spirit and body etc.
I'll focus on the spirit for this though.
When you became born again, God didn't give birth to your flesh again, obviously. Its your spirit that changed his source at salvation cus God himself is a spirit. When man fell his Spirit was corrupted and lacked the capacity to do the will of God.
At salvation God took out that spirit and put a new spirit and that spirit bears witness with the new spirit that you're a child of God.
Romans 8;16,eze 36v26-27
Your spirit got saved, perfected at salvation, nothing to be added or taken away.

okay let me cut in here, having read a bit about your assumptions that we humans are spirits, whereas we are actually souls, though the mix up often occurs, you must that it is our souls that get saved, what does it profit anyone to gain the world and lose their souls. The soul that sins shall die, now God putting in us a new spirit is Him putting in us His Spirit like it's promised in Ezekiel 36:26-27 you quoted, so His Spirit is the Holy Spirit we receive after we have been cleansed because of the blood of Jesus and our obedience to repent, turn to God and submit to what He has done for us.
So your choice to focus on the spirit would be correct if we are spirits and not souls who receive the Holy Spirit. Now our understanding may differ, because in greek the same word is used both for Spirit and for soul, infact it is also used for divine, angels and demons etc, but well when a person is born again, they are born of the incorruptible word of God and partake of the nature of Christ by being put into him. Now if anyone who is in Christ doesn't bear fruit they will be cut off, you see being in Christ is the gift done freely not by us but what is expected of us cannot be understated as it doesn't just mean you lose a reward but means you get destroyed for disobedience and in fruitfulness.

So at first we are born under the influence of the flesh but that nature is taken away from us and we are given God's Spirit to live according to His will. The Holy Spirit assures us that we are God's children. Now we have received righteousness by faith but faith without works is dead so the faith that credits us with righteousness, is like Hebrews and James exemplifies in their actions and obedience to God. So a person cannot be right with God if they do not even have the kind of faith that pleases God.

When we say you're righteous or a child of God, we're referring to your Spirit cus your body is still a source of the father of your flesh. Your thinking may not have changed as the thinking of a righteous man, but your spirit is saved when you become born again. It doesn't change the state of your emotions (soul) or things you used to like before you became born again but as you begin to spend time with the word, fellowship with God in private and in church, pray in the spirit etc your thought pattern begins to change.

Eccl.12.7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Spirit from God doesn't need to be saved, it needs to work in us and bring us to salvation. Gen 6:3 God's spirit won't contend with man forever. Now the basis of your message is that you are already saved, which is a wrong premise, for your spirit would return to God irrespective of God's judgement upon your soul, if indeed you are spirit then what happens to your soul isn't important but if you are a soul and have the spirit of God you realize that you have to follow the leading of the Spirit who returns to God so that you as well return to God. Salvation is escape from destruction, if you have not faced death nor died and faced judgement then how have you been saved? What you have received is the promise for salvation and eternal life, which prompts faith and true hope in the resurrection.

Now might I add that I'm an evidence that it is true. As I'm doing all these there are apparent changes. I'm not there yet but it's a process.
In dealing with the Salvation of your soul is what we call "work out your salvation" when you work out your salvation you're causing what's already there to be expressive, manifested . Phill 2:12-13
Your spirit wants to serve God and fulfill God's plan for your life, within your spirit the will of God is there but you have to work it out by renewing your mind. You change your former thought to the new thought that is aligned to who you are now (a new creature) you're permitted now not to take your genealogy from the father of your flesh, I mean separating yourself from the experiences of came from the father of your flesh or lineage and conform yourself to the realities that comes from the father of your spirit.
That's why the bible says that in Christ you're a new creature cause every man alive has a spirit attached to the devil but now you're born again, inside us our spirit is different even if we look alike.
The two witnesses that proves you're saved is the word of God (what it says about Salvation in acts 16v30-31) and the holy spirit. He is our assurance that we belong to God and are going to heaven.

believe Jesus Christ and you WILL be saved. It is different saying, just say yes to Jesus and you ARE saved, but saying you will be saved shows it's a later occurrence in the life of that believer.

(By the way your Christianity should be about knowing God in the first not cus of where you're going) Romans 8v16, ephs 1:13-14 it says we're sealed with the promised holy spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession for the praise of his glory. You can't earn heaven by your works , we all sin and when you do yes you should acknowledge that it is not in your new nature , repent and forge ahead because Jesus already washed you, but sometimes we even sin unknowingly. Example if God asks you to do something and you don't you've disobeyed which is a sin.
Does that mean the person is going to hell for that? Of course not.
No man is perfect except God.

when you read Eph.1.13-14 the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--... until the redemption, a deposit for an inheritance we haven't received. What inheritance is that, well Jesus spoke a number of times concerning inheriting eternal life.

When you say as children of God our focus should be about knowing God, but do you know why we are to know God.

John.17.3 And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

Now because we sin doesn't mean we shouldn't obey God, we obey God even though we sin because we trust God who is faithful to forgive all our sins, since salvation is by obeying Him and not by being sinless, our sins are dwelt with by the blood of Jesus.

Now the disobedience you described may not be a willingly one, whether a person decides to live for themselves but by virtue of their weakness they disobey and transgress, they fail to love at some point as they have been commanded to, God forgives but it is a different case when a person lives in sin and enjoys the fruits of wickedness going against God's will and being workers of Iniquity, such would go to hell whether they believe or not.

The fact that I haven't been on NL in years, but for some reason I was led here and I came across your thread when we've treating the same topic in church.
Coindence, maybe or maybe God wants me to tell you this to experience freedom perhaps.
You'd probably turn this around and say maybe I'm the one to see your own view, but that mere fact that we all fall short of God's glory..."All have sinned" "He that is without sin cast the first stone"
There's also the question "should you go on sinning cus Jesus already paid the price?" Of course not.
Towards the ending of Romans 5 and 6 talks about that one.
Its a whole topic on its own.

This topic of salvation has a lot more that can't be written here, it's a whole series and I just tried to pick here and there from what we've been taught so far so I'm sure I'm a bit all around.
This week we'll be taught on how to renew our mind to work out that Salvation so that salvation won't just be a gift on the shelf but a life we're living.

look, he who is without sin, should prompt humility and mercy to others who are weak as we are, but it's doesn't mean that no one pleases God nor does God's will. Abraham obeyed God looking forward to the city not built by men nor by God, yet Abraham sinned, lied and others God knows but that didn't count, what counted to God was that he believed and obeyed. God declared Job righteous before the test, and Job though he complained and was weary, God showed him mercy and showed up. This men were not perfect, neither was Noah but God found them righteous and saved them as an example to future generations, so he tells Ezekiel if a sinner repents and turns from his wicked ways and does what is right, he will forgive all he has done wrong and save his life. Now Jesus came preaching the gospel he said, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Now can a man receive the kingdom of God without repentance.

The man on the cross had to it his state and be merciful to others, the Samaritan woman was asked for water and was also asked about her adulterous state when she asked for the living water. If it were free then Jesus had no reason to call her attention to it. The woman caught in adultery was told to go and sin no more, was it possible for her to suddenly become perfect. No but for her to turn away from the pleasures of sin and turn to God. It may seem free to you, but to those who obey God that is a cross we carry, for our obedience, to be self controlled, humble and faithful, to be kind and good even to those who may not deserve it, to be long suffering and yet peaceful and joyful, to love in a way that can't be written out simply.

Did you read where Jesus said or where I quoted him in Matt.25.46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matt.25.34 - Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt.25.35 - For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
Matt.25.36 - I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

gohf:

I dunno the AI you are referring to exactly o, but I also typed in the same search you claimed you imputed.

Now AI doesn't think it just gives you the "popular or common" response concerning a subject.

You don't expect the AI to go to the original Greek text and give you what you did not ask for. Now you can either listen to an AI or you ask the Holy Spirit if you have to obey God to receive eternal life. Now you can decide to check what katergazesthe means

Google ai and no I wasn't asking ai anything,
i only searched for the scripture and that came up and I saw it aligned with what I wrote to you.

gohf:
okay I dont really like post splitting but I want you to see what i am specifically responding to.

Now I agree with you that salvation comes through Jesus Christ of Nazareth, because through Jesus comes grace and truth like John wrote and by grace we are saved, but when you say "it" is a gift, you have to realize that the essence of my posts were to show what exactly Paul was referring to as the gift, which doesn't disagree with us working out our salvation and our requirements to obey God as Jesus taught us as well. Therefore dismissing the erroneous believe that salvation is a gift and not that salvation is through God's gift, for God gave us Jesus and not salvation, we have to believe and choose to be saved, it is not forced on anyway, we have to pick up our cross and follow Jesus. So hopefully your quick summary shows you understand what has been written.


okay let me cut in here, having read a bit about your assumptions that we humans are spirits, whereas we are actually souls, though the mix up often occurs, you must that it is our souls that get saved, what does it profit anyone to gain the world and lose their souls. The soul that sins shall die, now God putting in us a new spirit is Him putting in us His Spirit like it's promised in Ezekiel 36:26-27 you quoted, so His Spirit is the Holy Spirit we receive after we have been cleansed because of the blood of Jesus and our obedience to repent, turn to God and submit to what He has done for us.
So your choice to focus on the spirit would be correct if we are spirits and not souls who receive the Holy Spirit. Now our understanding may differ, because in greek the same word is used both for Spirit and for soul, infact it is also used for divine, angels and demons etc, but well when a person is born again, they are born of the incorruptible word of God and partake of the nature of Christ by being put into him. Now if anyone who is in Christ doesn't bear fruit they will be cut off, you see being in Christ is the gift done freely not by us but what is expected of us cannot be understated as it doesn't just mean you lose a reward but means you get destroyed for disobedience and in fruitfulness.

So at first we are born under the influence of the flesh but that nature is taken away from us and we are given God's Spirit to live according to His will. The Holy Spirit assures us that we are God's children. Now we have received righteousness by faith but faith without works is dead so the faith that credits us with righteousness, is like Hebrews and James exemplifies in their actions and obedience to God. So a person cannot be right with God if they do not even have the kind of faith that pleases God.



Eccl.12.7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Spirit from God doesn't need to be saved, it needs to work in us and bring us to salvation. Gen 6:3 God's spirit won't contend with man forever. Now the basis of your message is that you are already saved, which is a wrong premise, for your spirit would return to God irrespective of God's judgement upon your soul, if indeed you are spirit then what happens to your soul isn't important but if you are a soul and have the spirit of God you realize that you have to follow the leading of the Spirit who returns to God so that you as well return to God. Salvation is escape from destruction, if you have not faced death nor died and faced judgement then how have you been saved? What you have received is the promise for salvation and eternal life, which prompts faith and true hope in the resurrection.


believe Jesus Christ and you WILL be saved. It is different saying, just say yes to Jesus and you ARE saved, but saying you will be saved shows it's a later occurrence in the life of that believer.

when you read Eph.1.13-14 the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--... until the redemption, a deposit for an inheritance we haven't received. What inheritance is that, well Jesus spoke a number of times concerning inheriting eternal life.

When you say as children of God our focus should be about knowing God, but do you know why we are to know God.

John.17.3 And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

Now because we sin doesn't mean we shouldn't obey God, we obey God even though we sin because we trust God who is faithful to forgive all our sins, since salvation is by obeying Him and not by being sinless, our sins are dwelt with by the blood of Jesus.

Now the disobedience you described may not be a willingly one, whether a person decides to live for themselves but by virtue of their weakness they disobey and transgress, they fail to love at some point as they have been commanded to, God forgives but it is a different case when a person lives in sin and enjoys the fruits of wickedness going against God's will and being workers of Iniquity, such would go to hell whether they believe or not.

look, he who is without sin, should prompt humility and mercy to others who are weak as we are, but it's doesn't mean that no one pleases God nor does God's will. Abraham obeyed God looking forward to the city not built by men nor by God, yet Abraham sinned, lied and others God knows but that didn't count, what counted to God was that he believed and obeyed. God declared Job righteous before the test, and Job though he complained and was weary, God showed him mercy and showed up. This men were not perfect, neither was Noah but God found them righteous and saved them as an example to future generations, so he tells Ezekiel if a sinner repents and turns from his wicked ways and does what is right, he will forgive all he has done wrong and save his life. Now Jesus came preaching the gospel he said, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Now can a man receive the kingdom of God without repentance.

The man on the cross had to it his state and be merciful to others, the Samaritan woman was asked for water and was also asked about her adulterous state when she asked for the living water. If it were free then Jesus had no reason to call her attention to it. The woman caught in adultery was told to go and sin no more, was it possible for her to suddenly become perfect. No but for her to turn away from the pleasures of sin and turn to God. It may seem free to you, but to those who obey God that is a cross we carry, for our obedience, to be self controlled, humble and faithful, to be kind and good even to those who may not deserve it, to be long suffering and yet peaceful and joyful, to love in a way that can't be written out simply.

Did you read where Jesus said or where I quoted him in Matt.25.46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matt.25.34 - Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt.25.35 - For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
Matt.25.36 - I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

Okay i read all this...thank you.
You said we're souls and soul and body means the same thing in greek, and our understanding might differ...
So this is supposed to be our human understanding by interpretation not understanding through the help of the holy spirit. If I wanted to turn it around I could say since you say soul and Spirit mean the same thing in greek what if the soul you're referring to is actually spirit?
But above you talked about me learning from the holy spirit when it appears from some of what you've written that you're using more of your human understanding (You're actually intelligent by the way) and findings in interpreting the scripture.