NewStats: 3,259,723 , 8,170,725 topics. Date: Sunday, 25 May 2025 at 07:49 PM 3w1u5j

gohf:
and who are you to judge if I had humility or not, and what business have you with my humility.

In your arrogance you have shown yourself ignorant, without shame you are desiring for the truth to be silent.

I do not care to show that you are wrong, God will judge but what you have said is wrong and evil.

You lie against all those who wrote the Bible that you probably hardly study. Jesus said you do not know God's word nor God's power but instead of being silent and listening to God you have rejected His word.

Do you think my being silent would stop what is true from being true.

Not once have you ever shown yourself as one who depends on God's spirit yet you speak of humility when you lack it in face of your errors

Well, I'm humble enough to know the limits of my knowledge. I am the FTC of this thread and that my post that is first on this thread asked the OP, GothamCities, why Christ did not know everything. This my question led many, including your fellow JW Janosky, to assume I did not believe Jesus was God. This led to OP declaring that Jesus was not fully God. Surprisingly to them I corrected him that Bible says Christ was fully God. Sonmvayina then came in...
If I were controlled by pride like you I would have pig-headedly insisted that Christ knew everything

Nachmonides:


Alright, okay you didn't agree with me, sorry for that.

Whose words do you think is written in Revelation 22:13-16, yes John wrote it obviously, but who's words are those? — would it be an angel that is claiming to be those things in VV.13-16?

Revelation 22 the angel reveals the river of life flowing from God's throne and from the Lamb and then the tree of life
The angel spoke from Revelation 22:6-11
And God spoke from Revelation 22:12-15
And Jesus spoke in Revelation 22:16
Then the spirit and the bride spoke in Revelation 22:17

Then John concludes
Rev.22.20 - He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon!" Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
Rev.22.21 - The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all.

gohf:

Revelation 22 the angel reveals the river of life flowing from God's throne and from the Lamb and then the tree of life
The angel spoke from Revelation 22:6-11
And God spoke from Revelation 22:12-15
And Jesus spoke in Revelation 22:16
Then the spirit and the bride spoke in Revelation 22:17

Then John concludes
Rev.22.20 - He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon!" Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
Rev.22.21 - The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all.

Awesome.

Verse 12 begins with "Behold, I am coming soon," which is consistent with Jesus' repeated declarations of His return (e.g., Revelation 22:7, 22:20).

In verse 16, the speaker explicitly identifies Himself as Jesus: "I, Jesus, have sent my angel..." This ties the preceding verses (including 13) to Jesus.


What makes you say it is God (the Father) that spoke from VV.12-15?
Based on context.

Nachmonides:


Awesome.

Verse 12 begins with "Behold, I am coming soon," which is consistent with Jesus' repeated declarations of His return (e.g., Revelation 22:7, 22:20).

In verse 16, the speaker explicitly identifies Himself as Jesus: "I, Jesus, have sent my angel..." This ties the preceding verses (including 13) to Jesus.


What makes you say it is God (the Father) that spoke from VV.12-15?
Based on context.

Rev.1.8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," says the Lord God. "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come, the Almighty One." (ALL)

Rev.21.5 - And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making all things new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true."
Rev.21.6 - And he also said, "It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega--the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give the springs of the water of life without charge!
Rev.21.7 - All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.
Rev.21.8 - But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshipers, and all liars--their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."

Rev.22.12 - "See, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay all according to their deeds.
Rev.22.13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

Luke.14.14 - Then at the resurrection of the godly, God will reward you for inviting those who could not repay you."
1Pet.3.14 - But even if you suffer for doing what is right, God will reward you for it. So don't be afraid and don't worry.

gohf:

Rev.1.8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," says the Lord God. "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come, the Almighty One." (ALL)

Rev.21.5 - And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making all things new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true."
Rev.21.6 - And he also said, "It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega--the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give the springs of the water of life without charge!
Rev.21.7 - All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.
Rev.21.8 - But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshipers, and all liars--their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."

Rev.22.12 - "See, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay all according to their deeds.
Rev.22.13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

Luke.14.14 - Then at the resurrection of the godly, God will reward you for inviting those who could not repay you."
1Pet.3.14 - But even if you suffer for doing what is right, God will reward you for it. So don't be afraid and don't worry.

Thank you for the detailed response. I see your argument linking the titles 'Alpha and Omega' with God the Father in Revelation 1:8 and 21:5-8. These ages do affirm the Father's use of these titles.

However, in Revelation 22:12-15, the context seems to point to Jesus as the speaker. Verse 12 starts with 'Behold, I am coming soon,' which aligns with Jesus’ repeated declarations of His return (e.g., Revelation 22:7, 22:20). Furthermore, verse 16 explicitly identifies the speaker as Jesus: 'I, Jesus, have sent my angel...,' which seems to tie verses 12-15 to Him directly.


What do you think about the connection between verse 16 and the preceding verses?

If V.16 begins with “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches.

Which things, the ones said before or after (5 last verses)?


If God is the one coming in V.12, and then V.13 says he is the Alpha and the Omega.

What do you have to say about Revelation 1:4-8

Who is the one coming that every eye will see?—which then follows with the I am the Alpha and the Omega statement.

SIRTee15:


I hope U know divinity is the essence of God.
It's a substance and not a person.
So I don't understand where U arrive at God dying in the cross.

If I become a supernatural person and I become powerful. If I give another person my power, does that mean I am now that person? because I don't understand U guys question sometimes.

It was not the son~ it would mean human sacrifice.
It was not the father~because the Father can not die for obvious reason.

If it was neither the Father nor the son that died on the cross, do you mean the figure that died on the cross was just like an empty shell?
God created an empty shell with no essence, inhabit this empty shell at some point, then depart the body at the point of crucifixion?

Qasim6:

In short
Na God died on the cross?

First of all there was no CROSS it's just a pole but in Greek "Crux" means stake (pole)

Secondly it was an angel that was transformed into an embro in the womb of a Jewish virgin so the child inherited no sin like other children born through reproductive process.

The angel's brains were miraculously formatted until he grew up to become a man and as he came out of the water after baptism his memory was restored.

It's his perfect human body that's needed as a sacrifice to meet up with Adam's loss that's why he is called the last Adam! 1Corinthians 15:45

At death he returned to none existence only to be raised back as a spirit being (angel) again, his human body taken away as the sacrificial lamb.

But how can his faithful friends know that he is no longer dead if they don't see him?
That's why he has to materialize a body and as he is thinking, acting and speaking like Jesus they realized that he's their friend Jesus with another body. When Thomas one of his faithful friends insisted on seeing him in the former body the angel (resurrection Jesus) materialized into what Thomas need to see of course he couldn't have been going everywhere with holes in his hands.

So a perfect sinless human like Adam has paid for mankind's sins but the angel who carried that body is alive today.

As a Muslim i know you have heard about the ram presented to Abraham for sacrifice.

MaxInDHouse:


First of all there was no CROSS it's just a pole but in Greek "Crux" means stake (pole)

Secondly it was an angel that was transformed into an embro in the womb of a Jewish virgin so the child inherited no sin like other children born through reproductive process.

The angel's brains were miraculously formatted until he grew up to become a man and as he came out of the water after baptism his memory was restored.

It's his perfect human body that's needed as a sacrifice to meet up with Adam's loss that's why he is called the last Adam! 1Corinthians 15:45

At death he returned to none existence only to be raised back as a spirit being (angel) again, his human body taken away as the sacrificial lamb.

But how can his faithful friends know that he is no longer dead if they don't see him?
That's why he has to materialize a body and as he is thinking, acting and speaking like Jesus they realized that he's their friend Jesus with another body. When Thomas one of his faithful friends insisted on seeing him in the former body the angel (resurrection Jesus) materialized into what Thomas need to see of course he couldn't have been going everywhere with holes in his hands.

So a perfect sinless human like Adam has paid for mankind's sins but the angel who carried that body is alive today.

As a Muslim i know you have heard about the ram presented to Abraham for sacrifice.

So many inaccuracies and lies.

Groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that Jesus was crucified on a single upright pole, citing the original meaning of stauros. However, this interpretation conflicts with historical Roman practices and some Biblical descriptions.


The Romans used various methods for crucifixion, including stakes, T-shaped crosses (crux commissa), and traditional crosses (crux immissa).

Archaeological evidence, like the remains of a crucified man found in Jerusalem (Yehohanan), shows that Roman crucifixion often involved nailing victims to cross-shaped structures.



Inscription Above His Head:

Matthew 27:37 states that an inscription was placed "above his head." This suggests a vertical structure with space above Jesus' head for the sign, which aligns with a cross rather than a single stake.

Use of Nails and "Hands Spread Out":

John 20:25 mentions nail marks in Jesus' hands, suggesting that his arms were outstretched.

Luke 23:26 and Matthew 27:32 mention Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus carry the stauros, implying it was heavy and large enough to require assistance.

Nachmonides:


So many inaccuracies and lies.

Groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that Jesus was crucified on a single upright pole, citing the original meaning of stauros. However, this interpretation conflicts with historical Roman practices and some Biblical descriptions.


The Romans used various methods for crucifixion, including stakes, T-shaped crosses (crux commissa), and traditional crosses (crux immissa).

Archaeological evidence, like the remains of a crucified man found in Jerusalem (Yehohanan), shows that Roman crucifixion often involved nailing victims to cross-shaped structures.



Inscription Above His Head:

Matthew 27:37 states that an inscription was placed "above his head." This suggests a vertical structure with space above Jesus' head for the sign, which aligns with a cross rather than a single stake.

Use of Nails and "Hands Spread Out":

John 20:25 mentions nail marks in Jesus' hands, suggesting that his arms were outstretched.

Luke 23:26 and Matthew 27:32 mention Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus carry the stauros, implying it was heavy and large enough to require assistance.

While definitive physical evidence is lacking, the majority of historical and linguistic evidence points to Jesus being crucified on a traditional † or T-shaped cross, as it aligns with Roman methods and the Biblical narrative.

MaxInDHouse:


First of all there was no CROSS it's just a pole but in Greek "Crux" means stake (pole)

Secondly it was an angel that was transformed into an embro in the womb of a Jewish virgin so the child inherited no sin like other children born through reproductive process.

The angel's brains were miraculously formatted until he grew up to become a man and as he came out of the water after baptism his memory was restored.

It's his perfect human body that's needed as a sacrifice to meet up with Adam's loss that's why he is called the last Adam! 1Corinthians 15:45

At death he returned to none existence only to be raised back as a spirit being (angel) again, his human body taken away as the sacrificial lamb.

But how can his faithful friends know that he is no longer dead if they don't see him?
That's why he has to materialize a body and as he is thinking, acting and speaking like Jesus they realized that he's their friend Jesus with another body. When Thomas one of his faithful friends insisted on seeing him in the former body the angel (resurrection Jesus) materialized into what Thomas need to see of course he couldn't have been going everywhere with holes in his hands.

So a perfect sinless human like Adam has paid for mankind's sins but the angel who carried that body is alive today.

As a Muslim i know you have heard about the ram presented to Abraham for sacrifice.

Either you're Gnostic or a JW, from what I'm reading.

Whichever one, it's better you read the of the first hand eye witnesses in the Bible.

Nachmonides:

So many inaccuracies and lies.
Groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that Jesus was crucified on a single upright pole, citing the original meaning of stauros. However, this interpretation conflicts with historical Roman practices and some Biblical descriptions.
The Romans used various methods for crucifixion, including stakes, T-shaped crosses (crux commissa), and traditional crosses (crux immissa).
Archaeological evidence, like the remains of a crucified man found in Jerusalem (Yehohanan), shows that Roman crucifixion often involved nailing victims to cross-shaped structures.
Inscription Above His Head:
Matthew 27:37 states that an inscription was placed "above his head." This suggests a vertical structure with space above Jesus' head for the sign, which aligns with a cross rather than a single stake.
Use of Nails and "Hands Spread Out":
John 20:25 mentions nail marks in Jesus' hands, suggesting that his arms were outstretched.
Luke 23:26 and Matthew 27:32 mention Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus carry the stauros, implying it was heavy and large enough to require assistance.

Thanks for the response!

Jesus was impaled not on a cross but a stake and the nail wounds doesn't mean it's three because those impaled had their hands nailed on top of the other just as their feet so both hands as well as feet will have the prints.

Thank you!

Nachmonides:

Either you're Gnostic or a JW, from what I'm reading. Whichever one, it's better you read the of the first hand eye witnesses in the Bible.

The eyewitness s states that Jesus' friends couldn't recognize him at his resurrection which means he was not with his former body anymore.

Thanks!

MaxInDHouse:


Thanks for the response!

Jesus was impaled not on a cross but a stake and the nail wounds doesn't mean it's three because those impaled had their hands nailed on top of the other just as their feet so both hands as well as feet will have the prints.

Thank you!

It's fine, I disagree though.

The Romans themselves in their literature, have the crux commissa for criminals as the most likely model, even in the Roman Catholic Church writings, they have the T shaped cross depicted of Jesus' Crucifixion. The very Roman church that wrote, translated scriptures into the Latin Vulgate.

MaxInDHouse:


The eyewitness s states that Jesus' friends couldn't recognize him at his resurrection which means he was not with his former body anymore.

Thanks!

Alright, I agree that his friends couldn't recognize him upon his resurrection, and that he was not with his former body anymore, because that's what the scriptures teach.

MaxInDHouse:


Thanks for the response!

Jesus was impaled not on a cross but a stake and the nail wounds doesn't mean it's three because those impaled had their hands nailed on top of the other just as their feet so both hands as well as feet will have the prints.

Thank you!

The picture you posted, are you basing your argument on it? Or you're basing your argument on the word used in the Greek|Latin in the bible? — or are you using it to the Greek|Latin word used?

If it's the picture in that piece of literature, I can bring my own as well and base my argument.

Nachmonides:

It's fine, I disagree though.
The Romans themselves in their literature, have the crux commissa for criminals as the most likely model, even in the Roman Catholic Church writings, they have the T shaped cross depicted of Jesus' Crucifixion. The very Roman church that wrote, translated scriptures into the Latin Vulgate.

Nachmonides:

The picture you posted, are you basing your argument on it? Or you're basing your argument on the word used in the Greek|Latin in the bible? — or are you using it to the Greek|Latin word used? If it's the picture in that piece of literature, I can bring my own as well and base my argument.

OK that means you prefer the cross while i will prefer the stake since both were used in ancient Rome.

Qasim6:


It was not the son~ it would mean human sacrifice.
It was not the father~because the Father can not die for obvious reason.

If it was neither the Father nor the son that died on the cross, do you mean the figure that died on the cross was just like an empty shell?
God created an empty shell with no essence, inhabit this empty shell at some point, then depart the body at the point of crucifixion?

It's obvious U don't understand who a Man is and thus confused about the person of Jesus Christ.
Is it ok If I teach U christology?

For U to understand Christology, we have to go back to the creation of man.

Now, let me ask U, how is man created as per bible theology.

2. What is death? What happens to man at death?

SIRTee15:


It's obvious U don't understand who a Man is and thus confused about the person of Jesus Christ.
Is it ok If I teach U christology?

For U to understand Christology, we have to go back to the creation of man.

Now, let me ask U, how is man created as per bible theology.

2. What is death? What happens to man at death?

When I told you this
"The devil is author of confusion and the father of lies, but from God comes wisdom and understanding and revelation."

See where the confusion that came from the devil that you believe has brought you to. Something simple and wonderful revealed by the word of God.

You turn it to a question and answer section where you can't even answer

"If it was neither the Father nor the son that died on the cross, do you mean the figure that died on the cross was just like an empty shell?"

"God created an empty shell with no essence, inhabit this empty shell at some point, then depart the body at the point of crucifixion?"

You can't even answer but start claiming it is obvious Qasim doesn't understand who a man is. Please tell us how he obviously doesn't know who a man is?

And how that relates to you avoiding shamefully the result of you believing the confusions of darkness?

You want to confuse him more by mentioning christology and creation of men.

I think some of you think, either a person has to be a complete fool or exceptional diabolical wise if not they can't be saved.


Asking you who died on the cross was it a man or God? You can't answer directly after proclaiming a lie that suggests God is man and man is God. Instead of believing that Jesus is the son of God, the son of man and he is and was and will never be God

Nachmonides:


Alright, I agree that his friends couldn't recognize him upon his resurrection, and that he was not with his former body anymore, because that's what the scriptures teach.

someone told you nonsense and you are believing it, maybe it is also true his body was stolen

MaxInDHouse:


The eyewitness s states that Jesus' friends couldn't recognize him at his resurrection which means he was not with his former body anymore.

Thanks!

which means you are corrupting the word of God with your own imagination.

Jesus changed his body and put new holes in the one he showed Thomas in John right

MaxInDHouse:


First of all there was no CROSS it's just a pole but in Greek "Crux" means stake (pole)

Secondly it was an angel that was transformed into an embro in the womb of a Jewish virgin so the child inherited no sin like other children born through reproductive process.

The angel's brains were miraculously formatted until he grew up to become a man and as he came out of the water after baptism his memory was restored.

It's his perfect human body that's needed as a sacrifice to meet up with Adam's loss that's why he is called the last Adam! 1Corinthians 15:45

At death he returned to none existence only to be raised back as a spirit being (angel) again, his human body taken away as the sacrificial lamb.

But how can his faithful friends know that he is no longer dead if they don't see him?
That's why he has to materialize a body and as he is thinking, acting and speaking like Jesus they realized that he's their friend Jesus with another body. When Thomas one of his faithful friends insisted on seeing him in the former body the angel (resurrection Jesus) materialized into what Thomas need to see of course he couldn't have been going everywhere with holes in his hands.

So a perfect sinless human like Adam has paid for mankind's sins but the angel who carried that body is alive today.

As a Muslim i know you have heard about the ram presented to Abraham for sacrifice.

You have just described the most international no, the most comical and biggest universal fraud to occur in all galaxies and yet you believe it.

This is another false version of Jesus among the numerous versions I have heard of

Nachmonides:


So many inaccuracies and lies.

Groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that Jesus was crucified on a single upright pole, citing the original meaning of stauros. However, this interpretation conflicts with historical Roman practices and some Biblical descriptions.


The Romans used various methods for crucifixion, including stakes, T-shaped crosses (crux commissa), and traditional crosses (crux immissa).

Archaeological evidence, like the remains of a crucified man found in Jerusalem (Yehohanan), shows that Roman crucifixion often involved nailing victims to cross-shaped structures.



Inscription Above His Head:

Matthew 27:37 states that an inscription was placed "above his head." This suggests a vertical structure with space above Jesus' head for the sign, which aligns with a cross rather than a single stake.

Use of Nails and "Hands Spread Out":

John 20:25 mentions nail marks in Jesus' hands, suggesting that his arms were outstretched.

Luke 23:26 and Matthew 27:32 mention Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus carry the stauros, implying it was heavy and large enough to require assistance.

this one you will just leave what is most important and starting arguing cross or pole, so that's what is more important? Then you went on to agree that Jesus changed his body.

gohf:
someone told you nonsense and you are believing it, maybe it is also true his body was stolen

Since you've concluded already i don't think it's worth it asking questions again!

gohf:

which means you are corrupting the word of God with your own imagination.
Jesus changed his body and put new holes in the one he showed Thomas in John right

gohf:

You have just described the most international no, the most comical and biggest universal fraud to occur in all galaxies and yet you believe it. This is another false version of Jesus among the numerous versions I have heard of

Enjoy your day!

gohf:
someone told you nonsense and you are believing it, maybe it is also true his body was stolen

His body is now resurrected, not the former or non-resurrected body.

gohf:
someone told you nonsense and you are believing it, maybe it is also true his body was stolen

I have stated the things I agreed with him.

gohf:


When I told you this
"The devil is author of confusion and the father of lies, but from God comes wisdom and understanding and revelation."

See where the confusion that came from the devil that you believe has brought you to. Something simple and wonderful revealed by the word of God.

You turn it to a question and answer section where you can't even answer

"If it was neither the Father nor the son that died on the cross, do you mean the figure that died on the cross was just like an empty shell?"

"God created an empty shell with no essence, inhabit this empty shell at some point, then depart the body at the point of crucifixion?"

You can't even answer but start claiming it is obvious Qasim doesn't understand who a man is. Please tell us how he obviously doesn't know who a man is?

And how that relates to you avoiding shamefully the result of you believing the confusions of darkness?

You want to confuse him more by mentioning christology and creation of men.

I think some of you think, either a person has to be a complete fool or exceptional diabolical wise if not they can't be saved.


Asking you who died on the cross was it a man or God? You can't answer directly after proclaiming a lie that suggests God is man and man is God. Instead of believing that Jesus is the son of God, the son of man and he is and was and will never be God

Let me ask U a question? What's the difference between a spirit and a soul?

What happens to the soul and spirit at death.

gohf:
this one you will just leave what is most important and starting arguing cross or pole, so that's what is more important? Then you went on to agree that Jesus changed his body.

Yes, Jesus' body was now a resurrected one, not the former limited body of his.
It now has no limitations like the former. Yet, he is the same Jesus.

That's your problem, you read meaning into my words instead of asking whether I agree to a changing of physical features, meaning Jesus now resembled another human being entirely. No, that's not what I meant, I mean his limited body was changed to a resurrected one, yet same Jesus. Now without limitations.

gohf:

Asking you who died on the cross was it a man or God? You can't answer directly after proclaiming a lie that suggests God is man and man is God. Instead of believing that Jesus is the son of God, the son of man and he is and was and will never be God

Gohf, I asked you 2 questions earlier which you have for some reasons known to you failed to respond to:


1, What does your bible say about John 1:1 in comparison to the original greek, and what can you conclude from careful reading of VV.1-14

2, What do you think about the connection between verse 16 of Revelation 22 and the preceding verses?

If V.16 begins with “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches..."

Which things, the ones said before or after (5 last verses)?


If God is the one coming in V.12, and then V.13 says he is the Alpha and the Omega, as you have opined that God (the Father) is the one speaking in VV.12-15.

What do you have to say about Revelation 1:4-8 where we see almost the same texts of VV.12-15.
Who is the one coming that every eye will see?—which then follows with the "I am the Alpha and the Omega" statement.

Nachmonides:

I have stated the things I agreed with him.

The first tool Satan used against the TRUTH is DISAGREEMENT, as long as two don't agree it'll be impossible for them to work together as a team that's why Jesus said where two or three gather in his name he will come into their midst. Matthew 18:20

Most religionists claiming Christians don't know the indepth meaning of this statement if Jesus comes into a gathering what is he coming to do?

What was his mission in the first century before gathering a group of faithful people?

Well the answer is simple Jesus' presence will help his group to WORK as a team in doing God's will!

So when individuals separately thinks they are Christians yet failed to work together in doing the work Jesus assigned to his disciples surely they are deceiving themselves because Jesus can't be in a gathering that's not doing God's will.

Therefore the only weapon Satan is using to make people seek their own glory instead of working towards God's will is disagreement.

Let them keep on disagreeing among themselves yet claiming they are for Jesus who is the Prince of Peace! Isaiah 9:6 compare to Luke 10:6

MaxInDHouse:


The first tool Satan used against the TRUTH is DISAGREEMENT, as long as two don't agree it'll be impossible for them to work together as a team that's why Jesus said where two or three gather in his name he will come into their midst. Matthew 18:20

Most religionists claiming Christians don't know the indepth meaning of this statement if Jesus comes into a gathering what is he coming to do?

What was his mission in the first century before gathering a group of faithful people?

Well the answer is simple Jesus' presence will help his group to WORK as a team in doing God's will!

So when individuals separately thinks they are Christians yet failed to work together in doing the work Jesus assigned to his disciples surely they are deceiving themselves because Jesus can't be in a gathering that's not doing God's will.

Therefore the only weapon Satan is using to make people seek their own glory instead of working towards God's will is disagreement.

Let them keep on disagreeing among themselves yet claiming they are for Jesus who is the Prince of Peace! Isaiah 9:6 compare to Luke 10:6

Hello and thank you for your responses, I have a question or two for you:

The same I asked Gohf, which have since seen silence. I perceive you're a JW like Gohf.

1, What does your bible say about John 1:1 in comparison to the original greek, and what can you conclude from careful reading of VV.1-14

2, What do you think about the connection between verse 16 of Revelation 22 and the preceding verses?

If V.16 begins with “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches..."

Which things, the ones said before or after (5 last verses)?


If God is the one coming in V.12, and then V.13 says he is the Alpha and the Omega, as Gohf has opined that God (the Father) is the one speaking in VV.12-15.

What do you have to say about Revelation 1:4-8 where we see almost the same texts of VV.12-15.
Who is the one coming that every eye will see?—which then follows with the "I am the Alpha and the Omega" statement.

Nachmonides:


Hello and thank you for your responses, I have a question or two for you:

The same I asked Gohf, which have since seen silence. I perceive you're a JW like Gohf.

1, What does your bible say about John 1:1 in comparison to the original greek, and what can you conclude from careful reading of VV.1-14

2, What do you think about the connection between verse 16 of Revelation 22 and the preceding verses?

If V.16 begins with “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches..."

Which things, the ones said before or after (5 last verses)?


If God is the one coming in V.12, and then V.13 says he is the Alpha and the Omega, as Gohf has opined that God (the Father) is the one speaking in VV.12-15.

What do you have to say about Revelation 1:4-8 where we see almost the same texts of VV.12-15.
Who is the one coming that every eye will see?—which then follows with the "I am the Alpha and the Omega" statement.

If John 1:1 states that Jesus is the Almighty God, Who is the God that no man has seen at any time according to John 1:18?

King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

Truthseeker10:

If John 1:1 states that Jesus is the Almighty God, Who is the God that no man has seen at any time according to John 1:18?

King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

Amazing question:


Something fishy is going on right?, either John is crazy telling us in V.1 that Jesus who we can see is God, and in V.18 he says no one has seen God at any time, or he's trying to tell us something .
Let's look at it.


To understand John 1:18 in its context, we need to consider the surrounding verses in John 1:1–18, often called the Prologue of John's Gospel. This age introduces themes of Jesus' divinity, His role as the Word, and His mission to reveal God.

John 1:1–5: Jesus as the Word (Logos)

Verse 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
This establishes Jesus (the Word) as both distinct from God the Father ("with God" and fully divine ("was God". It sets the foundation for understanding that Jesus is God made manifest.

When we see "In the beginning", John does not have the beginning of the world in mind. He is referring to the book of Genesis, Beresheet, the word itself means the beginnings.

John wasn't in the beginning for him to know in the beginning was the word. So he must have read Genesis and he is drawing his theology (his study of God) from it and attaching it to Jesus.

Verse 3: "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Jesus, as the Creator, has the same divine authority and power as God the Father.

Verse 4–5: "In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
Jesus brings spiritual life and revelation, making the invisible God known. Why this conclusion about light? — V.6 tells us about the Light in clearer . Again, John is drawing his theology from Genesis, that's where we see the mention of light being called to shine.


John 1:6–13: The Role of John the Baptist and Rejection of the Word

Verses 6–8: John the Baptist is introduced as a witness, not the Light, but pointing to the Light (Jesus).
This underscores that Jesus is the ultimate revelation of God, not a mere prophet.

Verse 10–11: The world did not recognize Jesus despite His divine nature.
This highlights humanity's spiritual blindness to God's revelation.


John 1:14–17: The Word Becomes Flesh

Verse 14: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
This is pivotal: Jesus, the Word, became human, allowing people to see and interact with God’s glory in a way never before possible.

Verse 16–17: "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
While the law revealed God’s will, Jesus provides the fullest revelation of God’s character—grace and truth.


John 1:18: Jesus Reveals the Father

"No man hath seen God at any time": This refers to God the Father, who is invisible and transcendent (Exodus 33:20, 1 Timothy 6:16).

"The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him": Jesus, who is in an eternal, intimate relationship with the Father ("in the bosom of the Father" ), is uniquely qualified to make Him known. The word "declared" (Greek: exēgeomai) means to explain or reveal fully.

V.18 can only be referring to God the Father because he connects the fact that no man has seen God (the father, who is spirit) at any time to how Jesus is the one that reveals him. The revelation of Jesus is essentially the revelation of God the Father, by a logical conclusion, because without the revelation of Jesus, the Father wouldn't have been revealed.


It can mean one thing therefore, John tells us about the word who was God in V.1, became flesh in V.14 and he says that word is the only begotten of the Father; the Son. And he tells us in V.18 that God has not been seen at any time, and that the Son or the word who he has been talking about has revealed him. We see the introduction of 2 persons tagged God therefore in VV.1-18.

Contextual Flow

1. Verse 1 introduces Jesus as God and Creator.


2. Verse 14 explains that Jesus, though divine, became flesh, making God's glory visible.


3. Verse 18 concludes that no one has ever seen God the Father directly, but Jesus, the Son, reveals Him perfectly.

Come to a conclusion yourself based on what is written. What do you see?