NewStats: 3,264,940 , 8,185,153 topics. Date: Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:30 PM 6c182f

Goodenoch:


This is insightful and I agree fully. Just to point out that the conversations here as far as I have seen haven't really been a criticism of China in the sense of saying Nigeria or Africa shouldn't do business with them or shouldn't learn from them, but rather in the context of where one would rather live, based on their relative societies/laws.

It's not a criticism to say China is totalitarian. It's a matter of fact. There's a single party with decisions made centrally about all aspects of people's lives. Criticism is extremely frowned upon, to the point that if you were in China and you said the things you said about the West here about China's oppression of the Uyghurs; for instance, on Weibo, you'd very likely end up in jail if not worse. Despite all the negative things the West inflicted on Africa, I am sure that there's nowhere else in the World where an African today can migrate to and have as much opportunity to succeed academically, financially, career/business wise and even politically, as in the West.

There are a lot of problematic aspects of living in the West, but most people would rather live there than in China because of the societal and economic liberalism it affords. That's also not an opinion but a matter of fact - migration trends show that clearly that Western countries are the most desirable locations for people to relocate to globally.

The point is ultimately not that the West is perfect or that it shouldn't be criticised - I don't think anyone has ever said that here. It's that the criticism ought to be fair, and that when comparing it to other countries, it shouldn't be a case of comparing the worst of the West with the best of China or whoever else.

If totalitarianism is working for China and in turn helps in developing 3rd World countries, I’ll encourage it globally. After all the “freedoms/ liberalism” we enjoy in the west is subjective. One day you are free and the next day your freedom would be coned offensive to the establishment…

Gerrard59:


For societies to prosper and develop, there are certain factors involved:

- Right to free enterprise
- Protection of private property
- Democracy or a semblance of it
- Ethnic/religious/racial dominance.

The last part works perfectly well for China as it is disproportionately Han Chinese. So, the term "totalitarian" sounds misplaced as the system works for them. In my books, so far there is economic prosperity, whatever political system a country desires to have as preferred by the majority is acceptable.



I think we as black Africans even have a moral right to live in the West considering our histories. BTW, the West isn't doing us any favour as we are taxed for our labour and time. So, it is a mutual alliance. When the West is tired, they put up barriers as we have seen recently. [b]The belief that the West is generous with allowing us access to its territory simply for humanitarian purposes does not follow. I[/b]t is strictly economics, and we should acknowledge it. Nothing goes for nothing. We are dealing with people who propagated capitalism.

As for criticism of China, as a black African, I find it very odd. Why should people who have not built a functioning society criticise those who have done so? People who cannot ensure adequate distribution and stable electricity are advising those who build nuclear power facilities on how to generate electricity? It is like me advising Dangote on how to make and spend money. E no make sense to me. A Swiss criticises or lectures China? Fair deal. A Nigerian doing the same is appalling.

1. Totalitarianism has nothing to do with ethnic dominance in this case. It's about the political system and the degree of control that the government has on people's lives, from how many children they are allowed to have to what they are allowed to post. People getting disappeared simply for being Muslims or Christians, getting imprisoned for doing a cartoon of the premier etc. There are regulations everywhere but the sheer scale of Chinese ones is unmatched. As much as free speech has become controversial in the west recently, it's still orders of magnitude freer than China and that's another fact.

2. I never said anything about generosity. I don't consider morality or sentiments when discussing geopolitics. It's always about incentives and interests, and always has been. I agree fully the West benefits from immigrants in of tax, skills etc, but that's irrelevant to my point about how the West is the best place for immigrants to flourish.

3. I disagree about history granting anyone a 'right' to migrate anywhere. The Fulani, Oyo, Bantu, Benin empires and others in Africa and around the world were all expansionist and also practised all the same colonisation and slavery that the Brits did. It wasn't morality that made them stop short of conquering other parts of the world. There's a lot to be said on this specific point but perhaps another day.

4. Again I think you're missing the context of the discussions here. I haven't seen anyone just randomly begin lambasting China - it has always been in the context of a comparison with the West as to where anyone would rather migrate to. To your point though - if you believe that as a black African you shouldn't be criticising developed countries, then how come a lot of what you say is criticism of Western countries which are some of the most developed?

Lexusgs430:
An update on this scam I thought my daughter did not fall for........... 🤣😂


She actually fell for the scam, she transferred £2300.00 to the scammers, when they requested more money, was when she decided to seek counsel from her father.......

I received 2 letters from Santander (addressed to my daughter), I did not want to open them, but my wife insisted we did.........

The first letter referred to a £2300 claim (my heart stopped), my wife and I spent about 5 minutes screaming at ourselves (daughter is currently at university). After we finished screaming, I opened the second letter........

The 2nd letter stated funds have been successfully recovered from the scammers JP Morgan chase ...... We called my daughter, did the calm talking, screaming and investigating how she managed to fall for this scam etc etc etc.........

NB : Lesson from this scam - : I am withdrawing all big deposits from all my children's (I no fit shout)........ 😜🤣😭😂

Wow. This goes to say nobody is immune from falling for this internet fraudsters even the tech guys still dey fall…. Good thing the bank intercepted transaction.

[quote author=wallg123 post=129780389]
Wow. This goes to say nobody is immune from falling for this internet fraudsters even the tech guys still dey fall…. Good thing the bank intercepted transaction. [/quote]

This dropped my BP back to normal......... 😊

Datakey:


I have the iptv installed on my iPhone, so they must really chop my subscription money for VPN.. 🤣🤣

The only reason I hate apple products........ 🍏😂

wallg123:

If totalitarianism is working for China and in turn helps in developing 3rd World countries, I’ll encourage it globally. After all the “freedoms/ liberalism” we enjoy in the west is subjective. One day you are free and the next day your freedom would be coned offensive to the establishment…

Then encourage it globally. That's the beauty of freedom of speech. Only if you If you live in the UK or the West generally and other countries with similarly liberal societies sha. If you live in China and try to criticize the party or promote a multi-party democracy where people get to choose their representatives and actually have a say in policy, you'd very likely end up in jail or in a 're-education' camp.

More to the point, the key here is that it's irrelevant what you or I think because the migration figures are speaking Loud and clear that thousands of percentages more people want to move from China to the west than those who want to move from the west to China. There's no debate to be had on this point - the West is the most desirable location to migrate to. QED.

It appears to me that the idea of living under totalitarianism is a lot more attractive when it's an abstract theory than when it's something you experience day in day out.

Goodenoch:


Thanks for sharing, Chief. My madam received a call from someone claiming to be from her bank on Thursday or so. She shut it down pretty quickly but it appears these scammers are trying it on more and more nowadays.

I'm going to send a message to people I know to beware. It's not common for funds to be recovered to congrats to your family.

That's why we need to talk about this more, within our circles..... To avoid stories that pinches....... 😁

Lexusgs430:



The only reason I hate apple products........ 🍏😂

I swear.

It is annoying.

I might have to move the iptv to my android tho.

Thanks

Maybe living in the UK (West generally) and still be able to criticize it is actually underappreciated.
The fact that her ills can be called out publicly while within her borders should be a positive sha cos not sure that can be said of Russia and China.

Jack Ma, Navalny, Kasparov are only few of the interesting examples.

Goodenoch:


Then encourage it globally. That's the beauty of freedom of speech. Only if you If you live in the UK or the West generally and other countries with similarly liberal societies sha. If you live in China and try to criticize the party or promote a multi-party democracy where people get to choose their representatives and actually have a say in policy, you'd very likely end up in jail or in a 're-education' camp.

More to the point, the key here is that it's irrelevant what you or I think because the migration figures are speaking Loud and clear that thousands of percentages more people want to move from China to the west than those who want to move from the west to China. There's no debate to be had on this point - the West is the most desirable location to migrate to. QED.

It appears to me that the idea of living under a totalitarianism is a lot more attractive when it's an abstract theory than when it's something you experience day in day out.

What’s your view or take on this ?

wallg123:

What’s your view or take on this ?

How is this relevant to anything I've said?

wallg123:

What’s your view or take on this ?

You know the consent age in Denmark is 15 right?
So at 15, a Danish can do as he/she pleases and responsible for the actions.

Datakey:


I swear.

It is annoying.

I might have to move the iptv to my android tho.

Thanks

The only thing good about Apple is, $AAPL.........😂😁

080bjaked:


You know the consent age in Denmark is 15 right?
So at 15, a Danish can do as he/she pleases and responsible for the actions.

morally speaking is 15 years old is a child so how come they are encouraged by the state to do as they want without the condo your parents. Is this not wrong ? And stil this same people would frown when a man in the north decides to take a child bride.

Goodenoch:



How is this relevant to anything I've said?

Relevance is subjective. What’s relevant to me might not be relevant to you.

wallg123:

Relevance is subjective. What’s relevant to me might not be relevant to you.

Ah, but you were asking me MY opinion.

Okay sha.

Goodenoch:


Ah, but you were asking me MY opinion.

Okay sha.

It’s ok if you don’t have an opinion. No vex. I wasn’t trying to issues.

wallg123:
morally speaking is 15 years old is a child so how come you are encouraged by the state to do as you want without the condo your parents. Is this not wrong ?

No, I believe this is very bad based on my personal values but brother, I'm not sure moralilty is a good ground to China either, considering her history of forced child labour especially in the cotton and toy industries.

Honestly the west isn't doing well morally but China is worse. Difference is while one is over-pampering, the other is over-abusive.

080bjaked:


No, I believe this is very bad based on my personal values but brother, I'm not sure moralilty is a good ground to China either, considering her history of forced child labour especially in the cotton and toy industries.

Honestly the west isn't doing well morally but China is worse. Difference is while one is over-pampering, the other is over-abusive.

Agreed

Lexusgs430:



This COS been a total shambles...... Destroyed many people's hopes and expectations (caused by the greed of Nigerian's)....... Why are we made like this....... We step into something, until we destroy it, our eyes no dey ever clear.........

NB : I know other countries might have also abused the process, but we seem to be the baba of them all........ 😊

Lord Lugard is right afterall.

toughest007:


If you say it too loud, you'd be seen on here as anti-west, anti-nato, anti-US, and all the other related 'antis'.

The western custodians here would begin to question why and what you are doing here in the UK, grossly implying you shouldn't speak, reason and critic things objectively as a proper human should, just as you have nicely done!

I say it again and would say it a million times more, the western propaganda have really sunk real deep. It's a shame!

FR man most people are trap with western imperialist agenda. it takes alot for them to break free from the invisible shackles.

Our people are not ever ready to do the work. They feel overly comfortable with their present situations.

080bjaked:


No, I believe this is very bad based on my personal values but brother, I'm not sure moralilty is a good ground to China either, considering her history of forced child labour especially in the cotton and toy industries.

Honestly the west isn't doing well morally but China is worse. Difference is while one is over-pampering, the other is over-abusive.

Select your poison with care....... 😜🤣

Lexusgs430:

[/b]


Select your poison with care....... 😜🤣

Yes o. The sad part is that home (NG) isn't the 'moral fortress' we considered it to be anymore. The get-rich-quick syndrome don pollute too many things.

I feel for our teenagers and young people. "Internet pressure" is now the real thing and they define people's values based on balance

080bjaked:


No, I believe this is very bad based on my personal values but brother, I'm not sure moralilty is a good ground to China either, considering her history of forced child labour especially in the cotton and toy industries.

Honestly the west isn't doing well morally but China is worse. Difference is while one is over-pampering, the other is over-abusive.

do you work for the BBC? I ask cos you effortlessly parrot these sensational lines

'history of forced child labour'

Yet you only say these due to rumors and not from availability of incontrovertible evidence. Have you been to China and seen these 'children' forced to work? Describe what that is like pls. Do they whip them? Do they starve them? Do they work without pay? Give me something that shows you are not just typing beer parlour gist.

The other day folks were dropping lines that would make you think Russians hide under their beds from intense fear, but thankfully same day we saw the parade of destroyed tanks in
same Russia and a ton of people having a blast, taking pics etc.

All the times I went to China I no see this forced labour wey BBC report, which has long been debunked but somehow has been seared into the hearts of many, despite no evidence. All the times I went to China I didn't see eerie fear in the people's eyes and somehow they still have over a billion of them living there.

Funny how mechanised China would opt to used hand pickers to pick cotton in the field in place of machines that are far cheaper and faster.

The west have really succeeded, people believe them without asking questions these days. So much for a democracy that still successfully conditions you to think ONLY the way they want you to think.

Can we call that autocracy in disguise...? Lol

Treadway:
do you work for the BBC? I ask cos you effortlessly parrot these sensational lines

'history of forced child labour'

Yet you only say these due to rumors and not from availability of incontrovertible evidence. Have you been to China and seen these 'children' forced to work? Describe what that is like pls. Do they whip them? Do they starve them, do they work without pay? Give me something that shows you are not just typing beer parlour gist.

If I drop links (btw same links a simple google search would have provided if you had bothered to look it up) , then we will start arguing about whether the articles are just "western propaganda". After we establish they are not, then you'd go the route that China is not the top 10 in Child labour countries so we'll have to argue (probably sprinkle some name-calling inside) that Chinese companies are linked to Child labour outside her borders using DRC Cobalt extraction indictment as proof and so on.

Instead of going that way Sir, lemme just say I am sorry, you are right, they are beer-palour discussions (the kind only Guiness and Heineken can induce). E ma binu.

080bjaked:



If I drop links (btw same links a simple google search would have provided if you had bothered to look it up) , then we will start arguing about whether the articles are just "western propaganda". After we establish they are not, then you'd go the route that China is not the top 10 in Child labour countries so we'll have to argue (probably sprinkle some name-calling inside) that Chinese companies are linked to Child labour outside her borders using DRC Cobalt extraction indictment as proof and so on.

Instead of going that way Sir, lemme just say I am sorry, you are right, they are beer-palour discussion (the kind only Guiness and Heineken can induce). E ma binu.

you mean the debunked lies about urghurs abi... Which you have sensationalized further by adding 'children', e remain 'pregnant women'.

Humor me. But I must warn you, whenever I speak emphatically it isn't from guesswork or beerparlor gist, or skewed western propaganda news like the Ukrainians on snake island were killed that was false or how Russia fired weapons which were discovered to have actually been fired from Ukraine....no be surface level page 1 Google search I dey work with o..it is cos I have evidence to back up my words.

So let's go there, show me the evidence pls😁

I esp want to know what China stands to gain by forcing and using those folks and also 'children' to do work in those cotton fields that they have machines for, machines that will do it faster, and better, and cheaper...jobs which historically all Chinese who are interested do willingly during that time of the year..maybe some sado-masochism at play


China is working, their systems are working, their 'evil totalitarian autocracy' is working wonders, all things are working well for the almost 1.5billion Chinese. EOD
Can't say the same for Nigeria, not even in 300years.

080bjaked:



If I drop links (btw same links a simple google search would have provided if you had bothered to look it up) , then we will start arguing about whether the articles are just "western propaganda". After we establish they are not, then you'd go the route that China is not the top 10 in Child labour countries so we'll have to argue (probably sprinkle some name-calling inside) that Chinese companies are linked to Child labour outside her borders using DRC Cobalt extraction indictment as proof and so on.

Instead of going that way Sir, lemme just say I am sorry, you are right, they are beer-palour discussions (the kind only Guiness and Heineken can induce). E ma binu.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_child_labour_rate

What number did you say China is on the child labour list abeg

See what I said about your thoughts not really being your own..... evidently.

Na Africa full there ooo, but somehow I should take your word for it that you've done your homework and you have strong convictions to back your pronouncements. Brother pls!

Stop eeet!

080bjaked:



If I drop links (btw same links a simple google search would have provided if you had bothered to look it up) , then we will start arguing about whether the articles are just "western propaganda". After we establish they are not, then you'd go the route that China is not the top 10 in Child labour countries so we'll have to argue (probably sprinkle some name-calling inside) that Chinese companies are linked to Child labour outside her borders using DRC Cobalt extraction indictment as proof and so on.

Instead of going that way Sir, lemme just say I am sorry, you are right, they are beer-palour discussions (the kind only Guiness and Heineken can induce). E ma binu.

Quick updates, nha here we dey

080bjaked:



Quick updates, nha here we dey

you couldn't even update yourself on the child labour list you yourself quoted..You said China is top 10 na...another beer parlour gist parroted..and debunked.

I don look 1-40 tire I no see the historical child labor loving China o. Na Nigeria I see gidigba on number 10. And Gerrard59 already told you Nigerians wey never do NADA to shut up when the doers are doing their doings, but una no go hear.

Brother pls.

kumbhuru:
What's the secret to ing NHS interviews?

As a cleaner or manager.......😂😜