NewStats: 3,265,323 , 8,186,379 topics. Date: Saturday, 14 June 2025 at 12:34 PM 712i4q

Yoruba being from Ile ife is but a fairy tale, Ancestors of the Yoruba people originated from the modern igala area.

gwafaeziokwu:


Long time my brother.

My bro,

How nah......Happy new year

gregyboy:
Wahala nor too much, in a bid to defend Yoruba she became a lieing machine


TAO11 the moremi of the 21st century... Lol

That lie factory is very scared of me ...... once i enter thread him go tear race

I am offering my services of dealing with the nuisance Tao11 trying to turn facts on its head as is his stock in trade Just call me, I will deal with his lies free of charge, He is very scared of me

TAO11:
These lines from Thurstan Shaw’s own conclusion have answered you again and again.

(1) “Consideration is given to the arguments for a date later than that suggested by the radiocarbon dates”

(2) “but the question will only be settled with the acquisition of more archaeological evidence.”

(3) He did not carbon-date ‘bronzes’.

~ p.517

You just simply cant let go of being Fraudulent can you?

You have now resorted to qouting Thurstan shaw's words out of context , No more valid arguments to make

Was thurstan shaw not referring to the various debunking statements he made on the claims of Babatunde and Northrup when he said "consideration has been given to the later date suggestions?"

How can somebody with a working brain deny a something with one face and accept it with another?......are you not going mental like this?

What importance have you attached to the various instances where Thurstan shaw debunked objections to his 9th century stance, None?.....Is that not fraud and deliberate stupidity?

The screenshots below from Obalatule are Thurstan shaw's debunks of some objections to his 9th century plausible dating of Igbo-ukwu artifacts.... read them again, this time with your head outta your ass

TAO11:


Yes, it is only fair that all scholarly articles should publish the assumed date pending when a definitive work will pinpoint the ‘bronzes’ to their later dates.

Tao11 is promise i wont flog you(at least not yet ) if you kindly tell us how you arrived at the above conclusion that Igbo-ukwu artifacts where from a later date, or was it just your desperate wish for it to be so?

Also point out where Thurstan shaw supposedly denied his ninth century dating of Igbo-ukwu in place of a later date

Obalatule:
I will just leave you to Hellraiser77, He seems to posses the medicine for your fraudulent tendencies

Cc Hellraiser77 come and whip your beach back into line

Tao11s tormentor in-chief has arrived with enough tools to get the work done

Obalatule:
He considered and dismissed them, Why will you choose to deliberately overlook this all important fact, Just so you could be right?

You see why i keep Calling Tao11 a fraud? He will twist and lie about everything, i went through that paper too and all i could see was thurstan shaw dismissing the claims of that yoruba fake Dr Babatunde lawal who i suspect is Tao11s father cos they both shamelessly lie through their teeth

[s]

TAO11:
Don’t think, know instead.

And if you claim to know, then name me one expert who claimed to have dated the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronzes’ themselves. None! Not even Thurstan Shaw.

Yes, it is only fair that all scholarly articles should publish the assumed date pending when a definitive work will pinpoint the ‘bronzes’ to their later dates.

But if we’re asking about the nature of the dates usually associated with the ‘bronzes,’ we have read from the horse’s mouth that they aren’t factual or conclusive.

What has been dated are some composite charcoal samples, as well as a piece of wood from what was interpreted as a stool.

And the radiocarbon dates obtained for these samples (charcoal, wood, etc.) are the very ones submitted by none other than Professor Thurstan Shaw.

He simply assumed that the dates from these charcoals and wood should be the same date for the ‘bronzes’.

But to be complete and fair, he issued the disclaimers highlighting the assumptive nature of associating the dates from those samples to the actual artifacts.

In fact, a number of arguments have been put forward by experts (including Shaw), noting that the ‘bronzes’ are from a much more later period than those samples’s.
————————

To put this in a clearer perspective for you, take a look at the Ife bronze at my DP, it was found ‘in situ’ lying on a potsherd pavement and around some composite charcoal samples. These samples date to circa 900AD.

However, a thermoluminescence test of this ‘bronze’ itself came to date it to centuries later than the dates for those samples around which it was found.

[/s] Tao11 can you atleast try to be less fraudulent in your submissions, Provide evidence of where thurstan shaw reportedly left the actual artifacts and was testing Wood and charcoal

why you must you lie through your gworo teeth all the time?, Igbo ukwu is 400 years older than anything that was unearthed in Ife(which is just an extension of Igbo-ukwu anyway) , No one except your fellow yoruba brittle ego will believe you

For your information no archeologist has linked Ife arts to the modern yoruba people that occupy the area , Evidence overwhelmingly point to Ife arts being made by a group that preceded the influx of yoruba people from Kogi state

[s]

TAO11:
No, it’s like this:

Thurstan Shaw’s information is a scholarly submission.

Your contrary desire is delusional & inconsequential.

Cheers!

[/s] Delusions should actually be your second name, then fraud your third ....... Igbo-ukwu will forever be the oldest known culture and artifact in Nigeria perhaps even the whole West-Africa, Tao11s insecurity and emotional tantrums cant change anything

[s]

TAO11:
Cc: EzeNri

Assuming you’re capable of learning anything, then read the following with your mind open.

The dates associated with the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronzes’ are those submitted by Professor Thurstan Shaw in the 20th century.

However, Professor Thurstan Shaw himself issued his disclaimers regarding these dates which he associated with the ‘bronzes’.

His disclaimers is simply to effect that those dates (as associated with the ‘bronzes’) are NOT facts based but on assumptions.

In simple , the ‘bronzes’ themselves were never dated — either by radiocarbon or another technique.

The actual samples dated are entirely different items most of which are also from an entirely different place.

These samples are:

(1) Four (4) “composite charcoal samples” from Igbo-Jonah.

(2) The “sample I-2008” — that is, a piece of “wood from what is interpreted as a stool” from Igbo-Richard.

It is the actual radiocarbon dates obtained from these samples that he has ittedly assumed to be perhaps of the same date as the actual ‘bronze’ artifacts from Igbo Richard.

In fact, he later considered other arguments which points him to the conclusion that the Igbo Ukwu ‘bronze’ artifacts are actually not that early but from a much latter period.

However, he has called for more archaeological work in order to pinpoint the specific and actual latter-date of the ‘bronzes’.

But as we wait for such definitive work, it is fair to work with the assumed date, while knowing for a fact that the ‘bronzes’ are actually from a much latter period.

Let me know if you need the references from Thurstan Shaw himself.

Cheers!

[/s] All this rubbish without qouting Any article
Where did you pull this gibberish and totally fraudulent assumptions from?..... qoute the article where thurstan shaw made the above baseless statements you lying machine, Fraudulent Fat f***ck

macof:

the imbecilic fellow said Kogi was getting too dry.. With two massive rivers flowing within it o. Soon the coast will also be dry

The same guy was on the proto-igbo thread where two sensible igbo educators were analysing the spread and characteristics of the igbo dialects yet he learnt nothing

If i slap you this gay man, Who asked you for this okoto meow yarn?

habsydiamond:
Op.. I hail u ooo... Lori iro

Lori iro with no counter argument

was i the one that put osumare ego in the odus of yoruba ifa

PlayerMeji:
Half baked arguments...

Ifa must be half-baked then, cos i didn't create it

There are lots of proof that the ifa(Afa) Divinition of yoruba was really a hand down from the igbo aboriginals of ile-ife, One such evidence is this verse from the odus of ifa(Afa) taken from the paper by O. Euba titled OF BLUE BEADS AND RED: THE ROLE OF IFE IN THE WEST AFRICAN TRADE IN KORI BEADS in
Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria
Vol. 11, No. 1/2 (DEC. 1981-JUNE 1982), pp. 109-127 (19 pages)

"In the corpus of the well
known Ifa oracle, we are told that the imi osumare "rainbow excrement, is one of the
instruments Olodumare gave to Orunmila, the god of wisdom, when he sent him down
to better the world. The rainbow serpent is personified as Osumare Ego, the 'wife* of
Orunmila who made him very wealthy in his life time. An Ifa verse recalls wistfully that:
It is Osumare Ego that excretes money
It is Osumare Ego that excretes okun (carnelian beads)
It is Osumare Ego that excretes brass
Osumare Ego, Why won't you return to excrete mine?
Osumare"

This ifa verse is recited for blessings of wealth and riches, And the igbo word for money keeps coming up over and over, Note that the word "Ego" has no meaning in yoruba language

seunmsg:


Obatala was the head of the 13 clans that made up Ile Ife before the arrival of Oduduwa. He was defeated and driven to Ugbo. Ugbo is still in existence till today in Ondo state. Ugbo has nothing to do with Igbo.

Ugbo people of modern day ondo state were part of the Aboriginals of ife, But the list is quite long including the Ado and countless others who are today scattered across much of Southern Nigeria

[s]

SuperBold:


Write his name in full now, are u scared?

[/s] Scared? , I enjoy flogging the living daylights out of the fraud called Tao11 and Tao12 and omoolofin

obiekunie2:


if only they know. . .


next they will start using 'ozo' and later in future they will ask "when did igbos start using ozo?"

Usually when i see bini and yoruba dragging the title i go just dey laugh

SuperBold:

Why dont you call Tao

[s]

valirex:
[s][s]

Ọzuwọ if you no attach Benin name to Ibo, una no fit shine so I understand, wail on nyamiri flatin0

[/s] Your inconsequential tiny 2 by 2 bini kingdom was istered by regents from Nri and all the juju in bini was from Nri

[s]

SuperBold:
When did igbo started using Oba?

Igbos have no kingdom, we don trash this matter now

[/s] Ignoramuses dont know Oba was an invention of igbo And igbos remain the earliest s of the title to refer to wealthy and influential men of the society

[s]

TAO11:
If you’re trying to have an intellectual exchange and a meaningful engagement with him, then it’s a pity that you’ve chosen the wrong person. He lacks both the will and ability to do that.

But if your intention is to insult him and banter with him, then you will have your intentions fulfilled. That for him is a great platform to hide his actual intellectual disability.

I know you’re looking for the first, but sorry that’s a wild-goose-chase with the individual you’ve chosen.

Watch out for my words.

[/s] Superbold let me summarize this balderdash for you

The person you called simply has suffered alot at my hands and is not willing to go through it all over again, PTSD and stuff

All his lies and fraudulent claims here i bursted them all , His heart must have skipped a beat when he saw me where he was mentioned

SuperBold:


Knowledge should be intriguing, Scholes was trying to have meaningful conversation with you but you turned it to child play.

I want to see the end of this matter, Compose.

Both him and the one you called for reinforcement are notorious revisionists.

i hope you are not the emotional type because the last thing i want on this thread is tears, this one you are already sounding somehow

SuperBold:
Tao11 tao12 your help is needed here.

1. Igala culture is very different from igbo culture
2. The only tribe Yoruba know are Benin and south south tribes (I heard uhrobo still call God ighene)

Thank you, I'm going to enjoy this

scholes0:


I will indulge you my good MR and simply state that that statement of mine was based on the fact that I know Exactly what the OP was trying to do.
I know you hav a real interest in WA cultures and linguistics ...
To your question, NO nobody can say exactly that they know exactly or precisely where Yoruba as a language originated from. But of all the YEAI languages, Yoruboid languages have the larger presencce and range around the Niger benue-confluence area. Infact if the Ebiras hadn't migrated downstream / west from an area probably around the upper reaches of the Benue, Yoruba and Igala would have shared geographical contiguity which would have allowed for some dialectal levelling to occur. So at least it only makes sense to place the intermediate point of Origin/Ethnogenesis around that part of the continent. Anything into deeper pre-history is really beyond any of us.

yoruba has the larger presence in the Niger-benue confluence area because the modern yoruboid languages(igala & yoruba) are the youngest of all YEAI to find there own respective identities thus can still easily trace its path of evolution which clearly reinforces the fact that yoruba is a baby language that is only 800 years old

[s]

scholes0:


Oga get with the times, YEAI is not under Kwa group. That was a defunct classification. Kwa ends in Egun of Lagos west.

Even that [CH] you see in Igala isn't always pronounced as [Tʃ] but most times as [Sh] Just like Yoruba... So a name like Ojochonu or Ojochide is 70% of the time just "Ojoshonu/Ojoshide" and just some of the time (30%) actually pronounced as such.... Mind you, there is no [S] as in "Soup" in Igala. It was the catholic missionaries who had worked earlier along the eastern flanks of the Niger that came on to give Igala a written orthography and settled for [CH] to represent that sound in their language probably because those were the first igala groups that had with..... If in an hypothetical scenario, xtian missionaries had entered Yorubaland from the east rather that from the west and south, Standard Yoruba might have had CH which is present in Owo (Ogho) Yoruba speech.

Second point, you don't realize is that GWA, KWA, KYA are simply the same as GUA, KUA and KIA. How you chose to represent such morphemes graphically is up to each group. If I wanted to say "Ku Abo" (Welcome) in Yoruba - without adhering to vowel elision, you realize it would sound just like KWABO right?
An Edo name like Eguaikhide can as well be Egwaikide. A name like Ekua in Ghana can just as well be EKWA.

Also, your theory that the absence of Z or CH (which btw is present in certain dialects) in Yoruba is a waterproof formula to date antiquity is just funny because that proves nothing really. You have an example with some of the oldest human languages in East Africa among the nilotes and nile valley civilizations having a very simple phonetic inventory. Every language innovates independently.

Are the Akan languages older than Igbo for having al those sounds you listed plus extra such as KY, GY, DW, BR and so forth? Your assessment is very ridiculous to say the least.

[/s] Why waste you time typing this balderdash if you were just going to present falsehoods and misrepresentations?

Igala pronounce their "Ch" as; n chalk you revisionist, i have three igala friends that spoke igala as a First language, As i said earlier parts of ondo(including the owo) and ekiti retain aspects of what was the original yoruba language and not the oyo version that was heavily simplified to aid communication with Nupe and other neighbors.

As a matter of fact the yoruba genetics follows the same pattern, The eastern yoruba present the finest specimen of yoruba people you can find, but moving westward nupe and hausa blood comes until you get to oyo with their charcoal complexion and big tribal marks and oblong hausa-like head

Mr man "Gua" is not the same as "gwa" neither is "kwa" the same as "kua", i dont expect you to be able to pronounce this words correctly cos they are simply not in your tongue, only a yoruba man will think "gw" is the same as "gu" and "kw" is the same is "ku", This strengthens my position that yoruba especially that oyo dialect that is used as central is an "OVER SIMPLIFIED" version of the original tongue

scholes0:
As for the Igbo language mentioned by the OP, Even Igbos don't know how their language came to be nor where it came from.... It is the most oblique of the YEAI languages, having received very heavy influence from Benue-Congo languages found both to their north and east.

You conveniently left out the fact that igbo is the oldest of YEAI languages, IGBO language became a distinct language at the earliest followed by Edo, this two languages flourished side by side in the rain forests before some ancestors of modern yoruba decided that their homelands in modern kogi was getting too dry and started moving westwards at first then southwards later.

scholes0:
Igala is just Yoruba language corrupted by Jukun and Idoma (Kwararafa) accent.

The corruption of the original proto-Yoruba tongue into modern Igala happened when their ancestors broke off from the main branch west of the Niger Benue confluence into the area east of it. That is why the bulk of Yoruboid language speakers are on the west, while Igala is the only appendage on the other side with unrelated neighbors..... Igala shares ZERO mutual intelligibility with all the languages surrounding it. Its closest linguistic neighbours and ancestors start from the Lokoja area all the way to Central Togo.

Your submission is wrong on all levels considering the fact that the igala area was where the ancestors of yoruba people originated from.

The YEAI group of languages belong to the "KWA" group but the "Kw" is conspicuously missing in the yoruba tongue but extensively used in igala, "Ch" is also missing from yoruba but present in igala, the most unfortunate is the "Z".

All these are pointers to the fact that yoruba was simply just an over simplified igala language that allowed for easy communication with both themselves and their new neighbors