NewStats: 3,262,004 , 8,175,854 topics. Date: Saturday, 31 May 2025 at 01:45 PM 5b2f42

nitrogen:
A style that isolates our striker against small teams. Erasmus saw lots of the ball today because it was Liverpool that is more focused on scoring vs defending. Unfortunately, he is not the type that can do much with it, which means against small teams, he’s completely useless.

Lukaku, Osinmen type of players would do better as they are more aggressive, will come hustle for the ball and will do something on their own when they receive the ball. Erasmus is not fit for this style at all. In the meantime, to mask his weakness, what would a reasonable manager do?

Hojlund is at least 2 years away if not 3, from being anything resembling a constant goal threat.
in the meantime, a reasonable coach will seek an experienced striker. Hojlund gets isolated because of two things 1. he cannot keep the ball long enough for the cast to arrive 2. he hardly make intelligent runs.
the few times he manages any of these in a month, he gets chances to do something in front of goal.

adisaaowala:



If a team is consistent vs lower teams but falters against the big boys everytime, it wouldn't be out of place to exclusively label it a "quality" issue and say "ah - na there their talent reach".

However, it seems like the opposite is the case under Amorim.

I think the manager needs to sit down and re-assess the team's approach to our games vs lower teams - the Smash and grab approach that works vs Top sides wouldn't necessarily yeild much against the likes of Brighton etc and i think that's the point Nitrogen is trying to make..not necessarily about formation.

Our last 3 games vs Bournmouth, Wolves and Newcastle - we literally failed to create clear cut chances, despite playing 2 of those games at OT.

The game vs Newcastle ....we saw the effect when Mainoo came in for Orobosa - even though it didn't result in goals, the Magpies' dominance stopped and we started stringing ess together and keeping possession.

We want to see similar changes in tempo and momentum w.r.t the glaring problem of struggling to create chances vs Minnows..especially at OT.

It doesn't even always have to be facilitated by a change in personnel or formation - asking player X to drift in more or drop deeper etc while player Y pushes further to yeild visible, glaring positive effects...stuffs like that!

Tbh, other than the tweaks and stuff, he also needs to be realistic and pragmatic. If 3-4-3 is not working with these players, he should try something else until he signs his players. There is no sense in doing same thing over and over at the detriment of the club. If it’s not working, we will be relegated. That’s a serious consequence.

ETH realized this early and he was able to achieve some success. The mistake he made was not reverting back to whatever style he was trying to implement previously after getting his players. If we were in a great position, say top 10 and we are getting some wins, some draws and some losses, then it would be easy to justify whatever he’s doing right now. Pep and co stuck with their stuff because they were not in relegation or bottom 6 battle. But we are not even average in of performance. Not helping at all given we brought the guy to improve the team after ETH’s disastrous start this season.

nitrogen:


Lol, that sounds unfair. Especially if it’s a new system for them and the manager has not had the chance for trainings.

Players missing 5 yard es and jogging lazily around has nothing to do with the system.

adisaaowala:



If a team is consistent vs lower teams but falters against the big boys everytime, it wouldn't be out of place to exclusively label it a "quality" issue and say "ah - na there their talent reach".

However, it seems like the opposite is the case under Amorim.

I think the manager needs to sit down and re-assess the team's approach to our games vs lower teams - the Smash and grab approach that works vs Top sides wouldn't necessarily yeild much against the likes of Brighton etc and i think that's the point Nitrogen is trying to make..not necessarily about formation.

Our last 3 games vs Bournmouth, Wolves and Newcastle - we literally failed to create clear cut chances, despite playing 2 of those games at OT.

The game vs Newcastle ....we saw the effect when Mainoo came in for Orobosa - even though it didn't result in goals, we saw some stability and improvement in ball possession and retention..

We want to see similar changes in tempo and momentum w.r.t the glaring problem of struggling to create chances vs Minnows.....especially at OT.

It doesn't even always have to be facilitated by a change in personnel or formation - asking player X to drift in more or drop deeper etc while player Y pushes further to yeild visible, glaring positive effects...stuffs like that!

Nah. Nitrogen is very wrong.

If we keep the ball well and find weaknesses in the opponent, we have a better chance of winning. That’s what we did against Arsenal, City, and Pool. Against smaller teams, you can notice the approach of the players and their mentality. They believe they can drop levels and Nottingham Forest will just lie down and allow them to score. The lack of consistency is the problem. The lack of ion and seriousness when it comes to smaller teams. That’s why we lose against them. It has nothing to do with the formation or structure.

ChristineC:
Hojlund is at least 2 years away if not 3, from being anything resembling a constant goal threat.
in the meantime, a reasonable coach will seek an experienced striker. Hojlund gets isolated because of two things 1. he cannot keep the ball long enough for the cast to arrive 2. he hardly make intelligent runs.
the few times he manages any of these in a month, he gets chances to do something in front of goal.

You really think Erasmus will be better in the current system? I honestly don’t think so. He would do better elsewhere. A reasonable coach would seek an experienced striker, but if the market is not open or there is no funds, then you may need to tweak things, e.g 3-5-2 with a very mobile midfielder that can him upfront. Maybe a box to box kind of player that is always available to help in the midfield and can also take some pressure off Erasmus upfront.

We can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. It’s insanity.

adisaaowala:


But just like you said earlier, these same players have shown that they can turn up...especially vs the big teams...

If you check, the performance today was very similar to what we saw vs city and even Arsenal (despite the loss).

I think the adaptability Nitrogen is talking about, isn't necessarily formation based.

Everyone wants to turn up in a big clash and score goals because of the massive coverage. When it’s Crystal Palace and Soton, there are less eyes watching, so the players get slopping and sometimes don’t even bother doing the basics.

Leyqute:


Players missing 5 yard es and jogging lazily around has nothing to do with the system.

Who is jogging lazily on the pitch? Rashford and maybe Garnacho. And I approve whatever disciplinary measures Amorim is taking to address that. But the other players are workaholics on the pitch. Ugarte, Bruno, Maz, Dalot, Mainoo, Erasmus, Amad, Martinez, etc don’t jog around.

Leyqute:


Nah. Nitrogen is very wrong.

If we keep the ball well and find weaknesses in the opponent, we have a better chance of winning. That’s what we did against Arsenal, City, and Pool. Against smaller teams, you can notice the approach of the players and their mentality. They believe they can drop levels and Nottingham Forest will just lie down and allow them to score. The lack of consistency is the problem. The lack of ion and seriousness when it comes to smaller teams. That’s why we lose against them. It has nothing to do with the formation or structure.

If this is the case, then I am afraid it's still a tactical/structural issue because the "whole squad" can't just decide to underate the opposition at the same time


I see that we are gradually going from " they are not good enough quality wise" to " they are good but not consistent"...lol

Leyqute:


Everyone wants to turn up in a big clash and score goals because of the massive coverage. When it’s Crystal Palace and Soton, there are less eyes watching, so the players get slopping and sometimes don’t even bother doing the basics.

No now. Your thesis won’t fly. Everyone knows that small games give you the right position on the table. Players tend to flex their muscles again small clubs and only turn up a few times when playing bigger teams.

United fans should add these to their wardrobe.🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

adisaaowala:


If this is the case, then I am afraid it's still a tactical/structural issue because the "whole squad" can't just decide to underate the opposition at the same time

Does not make sense. So they underrate almost all small games and focus on the big boys because of coverage? Nah.

adisaaowala:


We should be winning these kinda games comfortably - 2:0 up at half time should be the target....

We will struggle to score goals in that game as usual with Rasmus or Orobosa leading the attack...

For once in a long while, we finally have a solid DM.
My gosh!!!
A solid DM.
Damn!

Leyqute:


Players missing 5 yard es and jogging lazily around has nothing to do with the system.

Re missing 5 yard es, yes players will have bad days, e.g Mainoo stinking up the t in a game after playing very well the previous week. It happens. But it does not mean Mainoo is bad. It’s on the manager to continue to trust that he will come good in that game or make substitutions.

Only an alien or a superstar will give you a 10 performance every game, and if we have 11 superstars on the pitch, then we don’t need a manager. Just ask ChatGPT to give you a formation and subs suggestions based on the available super resources and we are home and dry.

Danhumprey:
For once in a long while, we finally have a solid DM.
My gosh!!!
A solid DM.
Damn!

He would have unlocked Pogba

Onana had a solid game today. Vital saves that kept us in the game.

This team shouldn't introduce us to a vibe they can't maintain oo. No be next game now, they'll go and lose disappointingly at home against one lower club.

nitrogen:


Who is jogging lazily on the pitch? Rashford and maybe Garnacho. And I approve whatever disciplinary measures Amorim is taking to address that. But the other players are workaholics on the pitch. Ugarte, Bruno, Maz, Dalot, Mainoo, Erasmus, Amad, Martinez, etc don’t jog around.

Dalot jogged for Tottenham’s first goal at old trfford. He has also been found wanting on several occasions. Bruno makes wayward es a lot too. While this has nothing to do with agility, it’s not the level we’re looking for. Rasmus Hojlund is yet to get to grips with the game and he even lost a 1v1 today. We have also conceded several goals from corners just because we allowed the opponent to bully us and Onana keeps dropping his paynt.

Most of our problems are individualistic and not as a team. It doesn’t matter what system we play, if the players turn up on an individual level, we wouldn’t have lost as many games as we have.

adisaaowala:


If this is the case, then I am afraid it's still a tactical/structural issue because the "whole squad" can't just decide to underate the opposition at the same time


I see that we are gradually going from " they are not good enough quality wise" to " they are good but not consistent"...lol

Lol. Stop kidding yourself.

One mistake can ruin the hard work of the whole team. And we usually concede from individual mistakes from a couple of players, esp in the last couple of months.

You can keep on believing it’s the system- as if these players didn’t make the same mistakes under a different system.

adisaaowala:


If this is the case, then I am afraid it's still a tactical/structural issue because the "whole squad" can't just decide to underate the opposition at the same time


I see that we are gradually going from " they are not good enough quality wise" to " they are good but not consistent"...lol

“They” here doesn’t mean the whole squad. You can have a 8 players turn up and 2 players will make costly mistakes and you’ll lose games.

This has been happening consistently under Amorim as well as ETH, who plays a different system by the way.

We can't dance around reality. Rasmus is not good enough for the level we're trying to get to. Neither is Zirkzee. We will never get to the required level with those 2. There's no coachin Amorim can do that will turn them into top strikers.

nitrogen:


No now. Your thesis won’t fly. Everyone knows that small games give you the right position on the table. Players tend to flex their muscles again small clubs and only turn up a few times when playing bigger teams.

Nah. You’re completely wrong. Big games get more fame, so players are more motivated to play well in those games. Beating smaller opponents don’t give you that high.

EVERY GAME gives you points to climb up the table, if you win them. You only climb the table when you flex muscles against small teams CONSISTENTLY. This is much more difficult than turning up against 3-5 big opponents during the course of the whole season. So, most of these guys underrate the smaller teams, prepare poorly, play like sh*t, and lose miserably.

MRTA7:
We can't dance around reality. Rasmus is not good enough for the level we're trying to get to. Neither is Zirkzee. We will never get to the required level with those 2. There's no coachin Amorim can do that will turn them into top strikers.

Same sentiment here. But I hope we eat our words in the next few months.

Leyqute:


“They” here doesn’t mean the whole squad. You can have a 8 players turn up and 2 players will make costly mistakes and you’ll lose games.

This has been happening consistently under Amorim as well as ETH, who plays a different system by the way.

Unfortunately, this has not been the case...atleast not with the disted performances we have seen from the side especially at OT..

We can't say that the terrible results are because 2 or so players consistently underate the opposition.. or there must always be 2 players underestimating the opposition.

If a system isn't working to give the required results, the onus is on the manager to investigate and proffer solutions.

Currently, our system isn't working vs the small teams..as evidenced by the results. The onus is on the manager to check and rectify whatever the issues are.

We can't be going from " the players are not good enough" to the " players are not consistent enough" even when there is a clear "loss pattern"

nitrogen:


Re missing 5 yard es, yes players will have bad days, e.g Mainoo stinking up the t in a game after playing very well the previous week. It happens. But it does not mean Mainoo is bad. It’s on the manager to continue to trust that he will come good in that game or make substitutions.

Only an alien or a superstar will give you a 10 performance every game, and if we have 11 superstars on the pitch, then we don’t need a manager. Just ask ChatGPT to give you a formation and subs suggestions based on the available super resources and we are home and dry.

We’re not asking for a 10 every matchday. We’re asking for a solid 6 or 7 at least from every player. Look at Amad for instance. When he plays, you know what you’re going to get. He’s probably the most consistent guy on that pitch. Mazeaoui comes close too. As well as Yoro and Ugarte.

With Dalot, Bruno, Garna, De Ligt, and a few other guys it’s a yo-yo between 8 or 9 and 3 or 4. You don’t know what you’re going to get. And for some guys like Hojlund and Casemiro, you’re getting nothing higher than a 4 out of 10.

We need a solid 6 or 7 at least from everybody. If a few guys drop an 8 or 9 performance, then we’ll win. What we have to do is raise the base level for everyone and be consistent at it.

adisaaowala:


Unfortunately, this has not been the case...atleast not with the disted performances we have seen from the side especially at OT..

We can't say that the terrible results are because 2 or so players consistently underate the opposition.. or there must always be 2 players underestimating the opposition.

If a system isn't working to give the required results, the onus is on the manager to investigate and proffer solutions.

Currently, our system isn't working vs the small teams..as evidenced by the results. The onus is on the manager to check and rectify whatever the issues are.

We can't be going from " the players are not good enough" to the " players are not consistent enough" even when there is a clear "loss pattern"

The system delivered a 4-0 versus Everton, didn’t it? If you’re good enough, you’ll be consistent. I don’t know why that bit has flummoxed you. Lol

The Liverpool that are topping the table, is it not because they’re consistent at creating chances and scoring goals?

adisaaowala:


Unfortunately, this has not been the case...atleast not with the disted performances we have seen from the side especially at OT..

We can't say that the terrible results are because 2 or so players consistently underate the opposition.. or there must always be 2 players underestimating the opposition.

If a system isn't working to give the required results, the onus is on the manager to investigate and proffer solutions.

Currently, our system isn't working vs the small teams..as evidenced by the results. The onus is on the manager to check and rectify whatever the issues are.

We can't be going from " the players are not good enough" to the " players are not consistent enough" even when there is a clear "loss pattern"

@bolded. Okay. So, why did they lose?

MRTA7:
We can't dance around reality. Rasmus is not good enough for the level we're trying to get to. Neither is Zirkzee. We will never get to the required level with those 2. There's no coachin Amorim can do that will turn them into top strikers.

Paul Scholes: “If Manchester United are going to bring in a player in January, then it has to be a STRIKER.”

Leyqute:


The system delivered a 4-0 versus Everton, didn’t it? If you’re good enough, you’ll be consistent. I don’t know why that bit has flummoxed you. Lol

Is that not our only home win in the league this season under Amorim

How have we fared vs the lower teams?

We have played Ipswich, Bournemouth, Wolves, Everton, Newcastle and Forest and obtained a miserly 4 points from these 6 games

Leyqute:

The Liverpool that are topping the table, is it not because they’re consistent at creating chances and scoring goals?

They are winning and not making excuses here and there...that's what matters most

nitrogen:


You really think Erasmus will be better in the current system? I honestly don’t think so. He would do better elsewhere. A reasonable coach would seek an experienced striker, but if the market is not open or there is no funds, then you may need to tweak things, e.g 3-5-2 with a very mobile midfielder that can him upfront. Maybe a box to box kind of player that is always available to help in the midfield and can also take some pressure off Erasmus upfront.

We can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. It’s insanity.

man u fans and their hopeless state of mind. Win man city today, lose to Bournemouth tomorrow. Then they will change the tone and blame the team. It's a shame the caliber of players they talk about when you think back of the days of Beckham, Rooney, ronaldo, nistelrooy, saha, tevez, schools, vidic. Then watching the red and white was a pride. Its a pity

Leyqute:


Everyone wants to turn up in a big clash and score goals because of the massive coverage. When it’s Crystal Palace and Soton, there are less eyes watching, so the players get slopping and sometimes don’t even bother doing the basics.

honest fan

Leyqute:


@bolded. Okay. So, why did they lose?

They lost because the whole team was disted from start to finish... it wasn't a case of bad referee decisions or hitting the woodwork 200 times.

As a matter of utmost urgency, Amorim needs to get it right vs the lower teams - na there the majority points dey!