NewStats: 3,262,684 , 8,177,863 topics. Date: Tuesday, 03 June 2025 at 09:40 AM 70266x

QuinQ:
➜It really doesn't matter the particulars of the parable, the idea is very clear
➜- the banquet went to those for whom it was not initially intended. Who would that be
➜Bottom line, you can say what Jesus said but you can't say what Jesus NEVER said

You indicated in your previous comment that it mattered the particulars of the parable, and that is why I had to drill down to reveal to you tjoiughts fail when you in fact parse the details. The story was about events that took place in a particular kingdom between a King and his people, not people of other kingdoms or mankind, as you claim.

2. The story is clear that those formerly invited from his kingdom pissed the king off leading to him choosing to extend the invite instead to the poor and disenfranchised of his people. We know who those are.

3. Again, Nonsense! Jesus Christ of Israel stated that He did only the Will of His Father, YHWH. He also said that His Father gave Him his people.... He did not choose them of His own. And so, when Jesus Christ of Israel said His Father, YHWH, sent Him only to the Lost sheep of Israel — the bloodline of Jacob, this was before He later declared that His Word is Everlasting — never changing. We can clearly state that Jesus Christ of Israel could not have changed His mind without risking being seen as a fraud.

Kobojunkie:
You indicated in your previous comment that it mattered the particulars of the parable, and that is why I had to drill down to reveal to you tjoiughts fail when you in fact parse the details. The story was about events that took place in a particular kingdom between a King and his people, not people of other kingdoms or mankind, as you claim.

2. The story is clear that those formerly invited from his kingdom pissed the king off leading to him choosing to extend the invite instead to the poor and disenfranchised of his people. We know who those are.

3. Again, Nonsense! Jesus Christ of Israel stated that He did only the Will of His Father, YHWH. He also said that His Father gave Him his people.... He did not choose them of His own. And so, when Jesus Christ of Israel said His Father, YHWH, sent Him only to the Lost sheep of Israel — the bloodline of Jacob, this was before He later declared that His Word is Everlasting — never changing. We can clearly state that Jesus Christ of Israel could not have changed His mind without risking being seen as a fraud.

With all due respect, you are wrong. Subsequent events prove you wrong. And you can't say God didn't know that Israel would get sacked and dispersed and Christ salvation opened up to all who believed in him.

Christ said he would not lose "any of those whom the Father has given me", do you think he meant Israel. Definitely not. Israel was sacked and dispersed shortly after he said this so he definitely did not mean Israel

QuinQ:
➜ With all due respect, you are wrong. Subsequent events prove you wrong.
➜ And you can't say God didn't know that Israel would get sacked and dispersed and Christ salvation opened up to all who believed in him.
➜ Christ said he would not lose "any of those whom the Father has given me", do you think he meant Israel. Definitely not.
➜ Israel was sacked and dispersed shortly after he said this so he definitely did not mean Israel

1. What subsequent events?

2. Actually, YHWH Himself is responsible for the eventual division of His original nation of Israel, the eventual exile and destruction of the second nation of Israel, as well as the eventual destruction and exile of the sister nation of Judah. The books describe it all as being orchestrated by Him as judgment against the people of Israel. However, nowhere in the books is it written that YHWH sent Jesus Christ of Israel to give salvation to all of mankind, no matter how many of them pretended to believe in Him. Why? Because YHWH's Covenant, which promised the sending of the Messiah, was specifically tailored towards the gathering of the lost Sheep of Israel back to Himself and His Holy Jerusalem.

3. And the same Jesus Christ said that His Father sent Him only to the Lost sheep of Israel. One does not have to have a Ph.D to realize that those who were given to Him are the people of Israel.

4. Why would Israel have needed to have been sacked and dispersed shortly after Jesus Christ of Israel made that statement? I am afraid I am lost.

As an FYI, the second nation of Israel was destroyed and the people exiled from their land by the Assyrian army around 720 BC, that was hundreds of years before Jesus Christ was born. The sister nation of Judah was sacked and then destroyed — renamed Palestine eventually — beginning in 70 AD. I am just attempting to give you an idea of the history around the time of Jesus Christ here.

AngelahFlo:

In reality God is sexless. He is an embodiment of both male and female. We use "He" in reference to God as a generic term.

Before i say goodbye to your thread there are few points i will like you to keep in mind just in case you come across any of my people throughout the entire inhabited earth.

[1]There are many Gods and many Lords {1Corinthans 8:5} it's worshipers of each God that will determine how his or her God should be addressed so the worshipers of the God of Abraham always address Him as a male with His name in capital letters YHWH which was later transliterated to JEHOVAH. Exodus 6:3; Psalms 83:18

[2] According to the Bible God He wanted to create a creature that will take care of the earth and this creature must have His attributes {Genesis 1:26-28} after creating man in His image God noticed that it's not good for man to be alone {Genesis 2:18} that's why He gave him the assignment to name all other creatures on the earth {Genesis 1:19-20} it was after all these that God created a female human {Genesis 2:21-22} that's why Adam could examine the last creature and called her woman {Genesis 2:23} all angels in heaven recognize the male human as one of them because he had all the attributes of their father and God but as for the female human they take her to be a secondary human that is why they don't relate with both the same way! 1Corinthans 11:10

[3] The idea of Trinity (Three persons in one God) has been in existence for many centuries before the establishment of the nation of Israel that is why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob emphatically told Moses that He is One JEHOVAH {Deuteronomy 6:4} by the time Muhammad walked the earth the only religion claiming Christians are the Roman Catholics and everything they teach he accepted except the idea of three persons in one God.
WHY?
Because as an Arabian he knows very well that three persons in one God is from pagan origin in ancient Egypt!

We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that's is the new group name given to us by our God JEHOVAH afte the restoration of pure worship! Isaiah 65:15

Thanks for your time!

QuinQ:


Oh, ok, I see. In that case who legendised him and what would be the motive and are all the acts of the apostles, and epistles of St. Paul, and Roman persecution of early Christians also legendised?

Everyone who had a vested interest in perpetuating the legend; his disciples primarily then all the people they influenced after his death.

LordReed:


Jesus is either a legendised individual or legendised composite of several individuals from the 1st century CE during the Roman occupation of the Levant. That period had a bunch of apocalyptic preachers who could have been the basis for the Jesus of the Bible.

I could not say this better. Excellently put.
There is yet a writer lurking in you, good sir.

THE RIGHTEOUS LORD OF ALL CREATIONS.

AngelahFlo:

When you can't explain a mystery. It's best you keep silent and stop spouting blasphemy.
Thanks for your honesty though.

Lol, because it shatters your illusions

The virgin birth is a dead give away that it is a myth.
The Jews don't have that idea as part of their religion.
The Isaiah 7 that Christians pull out is about a war and the sign was for king Ahaz that is kingdom will still stand. The prophesy is in verse 16. Not 14.

Jashub:
Nope...

To them, He was blaspheming ...and that was an offense punishable by death

He should have known better....if he existed.

Why break God's standing commandments and laws?

Makes no sense...

Zaheertyler:

Elohim
Three in one
God the father God the son and God the Holy Spirit
John’s testimony about Jesus Christ explains all we need to know firstly but the max guy will not go there

Actually there are 7 gods that make up the lower case elohim.

QuinQ:


But the same Jesus said that the God He was praying to was inside Him, and that once you see Him you've seen that God!

God is inside all of us...if Jesus existed, he is not different from us. Worshipping a man as God is tantamount to idolatry.

LordReed:


Everyone who had a vested interest in perpetuating the legend; his disciples primarily then all the people they influenced after his death.

What sort of vested interest? Jesus was dead and died having nothing. The natural thing would have been to scatter, everyone moving on with his life.
Instead his disciples were willing to be fed to lions and crucified for a legend they created, as shown below? Hmmm

22jumpstreet:


God is inside all of us...if Jesus existed, he is not different from us. Worshipping a man as God is tantamount to idolatry.

But none of us has ever said we can lay down our lives and pick it up again - then go ahead to do just that. Infact none of us can even stop our heart for one second - our own heart o.
Also, the Jews has never tried to stone anyone else to death for claiming to be God. Also, the prophets did not Prophesy any of us would be comming as God (Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Emmanuel). Also, none of us has said directly that we are God ("before Abraham I AM"}

QuinQ:


Oh, ok, I see. In that case who legendised him and what would be the motive and are all the acts of the apostles, and epistles of St. Paul, and Roman persecution of early Christians also legendised?

The Romans on the command of emperor Constantine who wanted a single religion for his empire.
But on the other hand, Jesus does not need to exist before that can happen. People has been writing fictional stories from the beginning. Nothing new.
The so called persecution was written by Christians as part of their propaganda...
Everything the Jews ever needed, God already gave them in the Torah and Tanakh. Anybody coming to change it can't ever be from God. For miracles see Deuteronomy 13.
Jesus is a made up character..... Christianity is about Lucifer and her son. Same mother and son worship, just rebranded by Romans.

QuinQ:


But none of us has ever said we can lay down our lives and pick it up again - then go ahead to do just that. Infact none of us can even stop our heart for one second - our own heart o.
Also, the Jews has never tried to stone anyone else to death for claiming to be God. Also, the prophets did not Prophesy any of us would be comming as God (Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Emmanuel). Also, none of us has said directly that we are God ("before Abraham I AM"}

You are quoting a book of myth for me.
All these things is what the Romans/Greeks wrote in the gospel stories. It is not worth a bag of sawdust.
Like I said before, Immanuel is Isaiah's second son. The prophecy is in verse 16. Isaiah 9:6 is talking about somebody who was already born. That would be future king HEZEKIAH....none refer to j.man. this is what you get when you take a text out of context.

Jesus is a myth.... Christianity started as the worship of serapis...which originated in Alexandria in Egypt...serapis became Jesus at the council of chalcedon.

Serapis became Jesus
Isis became Mary (the queen of heaven).

Kobojunkie:
1. What subsequent events?

2. Actually, YHWH Himself is responsible for the eventual division of His original nation of Israel, the eventual exile and destruction of the second nation of Israel, as well as the eventual destruction and exile of the sister nation of Judah. The books describe it all as being orchestrated by Him as judgment against the people of Israel. However, nowhere in the books is it written that YHWH sent Jesus Christ of Israel to give salvation to all of mankind, no matter how many of them pretended to believe in Him. Why? Because YHWH's Covenant, which promised the sending of the Messiah, was specifically tailored towards the gathering of the lost Sheep of Israel back to Himself and His Holy Jerusalem.

3. And the same Jesus Christ said that His Father sent Him only to the Lost sheep of Israel. One does not have to have a Ph.D to realize that those who were given to Him are the people of Israel.

4. Why would Israel have needed to have been sacked and dispersed shortly after Jesus Christ of Israel made that statement? I am afraid I am lost.

As an FYI, the second nation of Israel was destroyed and the people exiled from their land by the Assyrian army around 720 BC, that was hundreds of years before Jesus Christ was born. The sister nation of Judah was sacked and then destroyed — renamed Palestine eventually — beginning in 70 AD. I am just attempting to give you an idea of the history around the time of Jesus Christ here.

1. & 4.) Salvation was thrown open to all primarily via Paul whom Jesus commissioned to do just that through a vision. Also, Judea and the temple were destroyed. All per that parable

2. & 3.) See the relevant part of the Bible below. Jesus was clearly not talking about only Jews. And SUBSEQUENT EVENTS (till today!) bear that out!

--------------------------

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away... EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ EVERYONE who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

QuinQ:


What sort of vested interest? Jesus was dead and died having nothing. The natural thing would have been to scatter, everyone moving on with his life.
Instead his disciples were willing to be fed to lions and crucified for a legend they created, as shown below? Hmmm

Vested interest in the ideals they believed in.

Which of his disciples was fed to lions or crucified?

22jumpstreet:

You are quoting a book of myth for me.
All these things is what the Romans/Greeks wrote in the gospel stories. It is not worth a bag of sawdust.
Like I said before, Immanuel is Isaiah's second son. The prophecy is in verse 16. Isaiah 9:6 is talking about somebody who was already born. That would be future king HEZEKIAH....none refer to j.man. this is what you get when you take a text out of context.

Jesus is a myth.... Christianity started as the worship of serapis...which originated in Alexandria in Egypt...serapis became Jesus at the council of chalcedon.

Serapis became Jesus
Isis became Mary (the queen of heaven).

This is what you get when you isolate a part of the Bible. Christ was foretold about 400 times in the OT. Are they all Hezekiah? Did anybody ever call Hezekiah God or was he ever worshipped??
So all Paul's letters to the various churches were made up, and all the acts of the apostles, you truly believe that?
Persecution of Christians never happened? Something documented in history books?

LordReed:


Vested interest in the ideals they believed in.

Which of his disciples was fed to lions or crucified?

These ones below.
What ideals?

22jumpstreet:


The Romans on the command of emperor Constantine who wanted a single religion for his empire.
But on the other hand, Jesus does not need to exist before that can happen. People has been writing fictional stories from the beginning. Nothing new.
The so called persecution was written by Christians as part of their propaganda...
Everything the Jews ever needed, God already gave them in the Torah and Tanakh. Anybody coming to change it can't ever be from God. For miracles see Deuteronomy 13.
Jesus is a made up character..... Christianity is about Lucifer and her son. Same mother and son worship, just rebranded by Romans.

A single religion that would trash all their precious gods, even Jupiter. And declare the god-emperor himself just another lowly sinner in need of salvation?
Who comes up with this stuff??

QuinQ:


What sort of vested interest? Jesus was dead and died having nothing. The natural thing would have been to scatter, everyone moving on with his life.
Instead his disciples were willing to be fed to lions and crucified for a legend they created, as shown below? Hmmm

Are you saying you are not aware of the huge power that accrues by the sustenance of such a movement to which people will be willing to devote their entire resources and lives?

Are you also not aware that Christianity would surely have faded away if it was not taken on by the Romans as state religion? Do you think they did so for puristic reasons or reasons of power?

DeepSight:


Are you saying you are not aware of the huge power that accrues by the sustenance of such a movement to which people will be willing to devote their entire resources and lives?

Are you also not aware that Christianity would surely have faded away if it was not taken on by the Romans as state religion? Do you think they did so for puristic reasons or reasons of power?

What huge power? Mention any other time in human history where this happened.

Rome HAD NO CHOICE!!! They did everything possible to destroy Christianity because they intuitively knew it would destroy their society as they knew it and their precious gods with it. Instead those who witnessed Christians being martyred became Christians themselves. Constantine's own mother and several of his generals were already Christians before he purportedly had his vision that changed his mind about Christianity

QuinQ:


These ones below.
What ideals?

These are all church traditions, they don't really know how they died. Besides dying for something doesn't indicate the truth of it or do you think all those suicide bombers are dying for something true? The fact is they are all dying for ideals they believe in.

One ideal that would drive to death is something Jesus purportedly told them that he would not reward them if they didn't spread his message Mark 8:38. If they believed that Jesus was coming back to rule and would reward them with positions of authority then it stands to reason they would preach his message even under the threat of death. Same way suicide bombers believe they will get a reward.

LordReed:


These are all church traditions, they don't really know how they died. Besides dying for something doesn't indicate the truth of it or do you think all those suicide bombers are dying for something true? The fact is they are all dying for ideals they believe in.

One ideal that would drive to death is something Jesus purportedly told them that he would not reward them if they didn't spread his message Mark 8:38. If they believed that Jesus was coming back to rule and would reward them with positions of authority then it stands to reason they would preach his message even under the threat of death. Same way suicide bombers believe they will get a reward.

But this has NEVER happened any other time in human history. If that were the case it would have happened a few times.
Think of how many wars Mohammed had to wage to spread Islam. Now imagine he was killed before he ran to Medina. What do you think would have happened? No other time in human history did the Jesus phenomenon occure, and they did it without fighting any war!

** Suicide bombers are dying for an established religion and also undergoing on-going brainwashing and indoctrination. The only reason Christianity spread is because they tried to suppress it. Nothing is as powerful and emotionally destructive as watching a totally innocent man killed

QuinQ:


But this has NEVER happened any other time in human history. If that were the case it would have happened a few times.
Think of how many wars Mohammed had to wage to spread Islam. Now imagine he was killed before he ran to Medina. What do you think would have happened? No other time in human history did the Jesus phenomenon occure, and they did it without fighting any war!

What has never happened? People dying for their ideals?

LoLz. You ever hear of the Crusades? What of the Spanish Inquisition? Or the wars that were fought in England because of the differing Christian beliefs? Or the conflict in Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestants?

LordReed:


What has never happened? People dying for their ideals?

LoLz. You ever hear of the Crusades? What of the Spanish Inquisition? Or the wars that were fought in England because of the differing Christian beliefs? Or the conflict in Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestants?

These were all ESTABLISHED causes!
Mention an instance where the founder was killed without having established anything at all, infact with his closest friends refusing to be associated with him.
I added this to the post:
** Suicide bombers are dying for an established religion and also undergoing on-going brainwashing and indoctrination. The only reason Christianity spread is because they tried to suppress it. Nothing is as powerful and emotionally destructive as watching a totally innocent man killed

QuinQ:


These were all ESTABLISHED causes!
Mention an instance where the founder was killed without having established anything at all, infact with his closest friends refusing to be associated with him.
I added this to the post:
** Suicide bombers are dying for an established religion and also undergoing on-going brainwashing and indoctrination. The only reason Christianity spread is because they tried to suppress it. Nothing is as powerful and emotionally destructive as watching a totally innocent man killed

What does established cause mean?

So what if suicide bombers are dying for an established religion? You are the one making out like as if dying for a cause means it is true.

LordReed:


What does established cause mean?

So what if suicide bombers are dying for an established religion? You are the one making out like as if dying for a cause means it is true.

Nope. I said specifically the Jesus phenomenon - whereby the founder died a total "failure" without establishing anything at all, and even his closest disciples ashamed to be associated with him. That should have been the end of the movement and always is

QuinQ:


Nope. I said specifically the Jesus phenomenon - whereby the founder died a total "failure" without establishing anything at all, and even his closest disciples ashamed to be associated with him. That should have been the end of the movement and always is

How did he die a failure? He told them he was going to come back so death was not the end. Why would they be ashamed when he promised them authority and retribution on those who were ashamed of him?

Have you ever heard of Krishna?

LordReed:


How did he die a failure? He told them he was going to come back so death was not the end. Why would they be ashamed when he promised them authority and retribution on those who were ashamed of him?

Have you ever heard of Krishna?

He died a shameful death (crucifixion was considered such) and we know at least one,Peter, denied knowing him three times.
What is your definition of failure. He had nothing and left nothing. No money, no connections, not even a church building or home where they could meet. Like I said, you can’t mention another instance in human history where this happened and the movement survived

QuinQ:


He died a shameful death (crucifixion was considered such) and we know at least one,Peter, denied knowing him three times.
What is your definition of failure. He had nothing and left nothing. No money, no connections, not even a church building or home where they could meet. Like I said, you can’t mention another instance in human history where this happened and the movement survived

Why would a rather ascetic preacher leave anything behind? Those were some of the purported ideals, to have nothing. If he had died contrary to his ideals then he would be considered a failure in the eyes of his followers. He died exactly like he supposedly predicted so what is the failure?

22jumpstreet:


Actually there are 7 gods that make up the lower case elohim.

Three
God the father we the source
God the son as the expression as seen in john testimony
And God the spirit as the application
I don’t know which one is enlil or enki

LordReed:


Why would a rather ascetic preacher leave anything behind? Those were some of the purported ideals, to have nothing. If he had died contrary to his ideals then he would be considered a failure in the eyes of his followers. He died exactly like he supposedly predicted so what is the failure?

He enjoyed finer things just as much as the next guy. JohnTB was the ascetic. Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.". Besides, what has that to do with leaving behind an established group and a building where they met regularly.
Also, there are some 45,000 denominations of Christianity, then other religions, can you name one that went through a similar process?

QuinQ:


He enjoyed finer things just as much as the next guy. JohnTB was the ascetic. Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.". Besides, what has that to do with leaving behind an established group and a building where they met regularly.
Also, there are some 45,000 denominations of Christianity, then other religions, can you name one that went through a similar process?

Enjoyed what finer things? Someone who walked everywhere instead of using a horse? Someone who had to gouge out a fish to pay the tax? Someone who preached for people to leave all behind to follow him?

You are the one who has to explain anything you are arguing for. You can't ask me to explain your position for you.

Why does a religion need to follow the same process as any other for the people of that religion to believe in its ideals? Is there a religion template that was laid down to say all religions must be that way?

What has the 45,000 denominations of Christianity got to do with people dying for its ideals? Or how does 45,000 denominations prove that Jesus was not legendised?