NewStats: 3,265,164 , 8,185,847 topics. Date: Friday, 13 June 2025 at 05:19 PM 5y5er

Friends,
I was in downtown Dallas by the restaurant / bank / hotel area preaching, witnessing, and handing out new short tracts I’d just written up –and wearing my signs… “Honk, honk!” A guy at the red light rolled his car window down and said, “Come here. Come here.” Not really wanting to go into the middle of the street, I just waved. He yelled, “I want to give you a donation.” I called back that I don’t take donations but that I wished him a blessing for wanting to give to me.

I tell this experience because later it made me cry a little as I was thinking of him and the numerous others who try to give me money. Where are these dear people “coming from”? It is a sad fact: They have heard that ministers of the gospel want money –that’s what. I often get incredulous looks when I won’t take money; or when people hear that I’m not evangelizing for any church. “Not promoting a church?! Then why are you doing this?”

“Ummm…. the love of Christ compels me…” But I often don’t even say that, because most truly do not believe it could be that.

It’s just so sad…

Some people embarrass me or even get mad at me, insisting that I just “robbed them of a blessing.” We should at all times try to avoid being “a stumbling block” (Rom. 14:20,21) to another believer, so sometimes I’ve said, “Oh, see that man over there rummaging through the trash barrel? Give it to him –and you will not lose your reward.” Or, “Here is my friend, _______. She is out of work right now and has 4 children she’s raising. Could you give it to her instead?” Or, “Look, there’s a person sweeping these sidewalks for us and I bet he doesn’t get much pay. Why don’t you give it to him?” It’s amazing how this pacifies the wannabe giver and he does go over and does proceed to give to the hungry or poor person.” (In fact, to watch these encounters are usually quite fun and endearing.)

But, I ask, why are people often so fervent about giving to someone promoting the gospel and not to their fellow man –who has a blatant, obvious need? Like –missing teeth? –Like filthy clothes? –Like shoes with holes at the toe showing toenails that look so in need of a pedicure that they appear leprous? Yea, like– why?

I believe because the church is teaching and promoting a “give to get” doctrine, and this doctrine says it’s got to be a direct “give to God (or His church work) in order to access the blessing from Him.” So the motive of the giver is not “cheerful generosity, without compulsion” as 2 Cor. 9:7 commands, but instead one of fear and greed from the beginning.

And the teacher is even worse, as he only encourages the greed motive by frightening his congregation with “curses for those robbing God” using Mal. 3:9. Or for his own personal gain and his own “kingdom” advancement, he simply “peddles the Word of God for profit.” (2 Cor. 2:17) However, are we not to “promote justice, mercy, and our own humility before God” (see Micah 6:8 & Matt. 23:23), and “help the poor, the weak, the widow, and the fatherless”? (Gal. 2:10 / Acts 20:35 / James 1:27) Yes, we are; and this “tithe to the church” doctrine is not only hindering true generosity… –it is heresy.

First of all, we are no longer under ANY Old Testament law, rule, ordinance, or regulation. The Old has been completely done away with. It happened at the cross. “God… canceled the written code… nailing it to the cross.” (Col. 2:14) And if we “have been crucified with Christ” (Gal. 2:20), then “by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” (Rom. 7:6) This includes “The Ten Commandments”. For “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant –not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone…” (2 Cor. 3:6,7) …”letters on stone…” …”… … …”

Okay. So what was done away with was ALL the law –including the ten commandments engraved on stone. For as Gal. 3:24,25 say, “The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.” Are we under the supervision of a church –or a pastor? No. We are under the supervision of the Holy Spirit now (see Rom. 8:9,14 & John 16:13 & 1 John 2:27), and “if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.” (Gal. 5:18)

But what I’m zeroing in on today, is this tithe law. It is a sin to teach that people must tithe 10% to the church. Because then the teacher (or preacher) is commanding people to come back under law, and we know that to do that causes one to be an example of Gal. 5:4 –”You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” To cause another to “fall away from grace” –to be “alienated from Christ”– is no light sin. that circumcision was the main law, the main symbol, of the Jews being separated unto God –distinct from all other nations; yet the New Covenant is packed with statements about this symbol being “of no value” (Gal. 5:6) –”weak and useless.” (Heb. 7:18) In fact, Gal. 5:2,3 say, “Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised [be under law], Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised [be under law] that he is obligated to obey the whole law.” And James 2:10 tells us, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking ALL of it.”

It is a sad situation to see pulpit men shaming and intimidating parishioners into giving them their income’s 10% to do with what those in church control deem best. Why cannot “born from above” people choose for themselves where, how, and how much to give for the furtherance of the gospel, righteousness, and comion? And if they are barely scraping by, why are they having to give anything?! The “pastor” is supposed to be an under-shepherd –under the Chief Shepherd (Christ) and is to be a servant. (See 1 Peter 5:2-4 & Matt. 20:25-28.) He is not to take money from anyone, especially the poor, and build his little (or huge) kingdom –his glittery church building, mansion home, fancy car, expensive suits and rings… or even his plush pews and church carpet– off of other families’ hard earned money.

I have seen way too often, as I’m sure most of you have, a struggling family whom no one has any extra money to help, because the money is already tied up in pledges to their church to pacify the “head CEO / hired shepherd’s” ego. Yet James 2:15-20 says, “Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, ‘Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? …[For] faith without deeds is useless.” And 1 Tim. 5:8 says, “If anyone does not provide for his relative, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” “Worse”?! Wow! Strong language! And Jesus Himself rebukes those who “nullify the Word of God for the sake of your tradition… [saying] to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God.’” (Matt. 15:6,5) …Sounds so pious, huh? …But it’s evil.

And how about the missionaries who devote their lives to living and serving overseas, ? Why do so many of them struggle in poverty? Why? –Because gullible people who don’t know their Bibles are being fleeced by con-men in the pulpits. And the money is going elsewhere. Places it shouldn’t. I’m not saying all of these pulpit men even realize they are in the wrong. Many of them have bought into the false doctrine for so long. But still, they can read God’s Word, and claiming ignorance won’t benefit them when they stand before God on that final Day.

Well, I could give many Scripture references on this subject, but suffice it to say, that we are not under any law, including this very prized, shielded, and promoted “doctrine of the tithe”. Our doctrine is love (Rom. 13:10) and that love who is actually a Person (see 1 John 4:8,16), will counsel us on who, what, and where not to give, and who, what, and where we should give… and HIS way is the fulfilling, exciting, righteous, and FREE way.

“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery… –those weak and miserable principles…” (Gal. 5:1 & 4:9 & see Col. 2:16-23) Study God’s Word for yourselves and don’t let false teachers steal your freedom that Christ died for. As Jesus says in John 8:31,32, “If you hold to MY teaching, you are really My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free… [and] whom the Son sets free is free indeed.”

ALL of the TRUE Gospel is such GREAT NEWS! ! ! ! ! !

Let’s share it with everyone we can! For the love of Christ really is a mighty, compelling force!


http://knowgodsword./sermons/cancelled-all-law-including-the-tithe/

@frosbel
This is very rich and loaded, a real eye opener. Unfortunately the victims of this fraud that should benefit from this write up shy away from reading these articles. It's as if they have taken an oath to remain in this evil bondage.

^^

Many will come to know the truth and repent but unfortunately the majority who love this false doctrine for filthy lucre sake , who love money more than God will keep following this tithing false doctrine from hell.

Lets pray for them.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, the day is coming when a lot of people will start to question the business men moonlighting as "pastors" these days.

You will be surprised by how much control these wanna bes want to exert on their hip, to see well educated folks being taken for a ride amazes me sometimes.

The truth is coming out,

May God increase your strenght. Amen.

@frosbel,

I commend your heart, service and dedication to your Lord. It shines throughout your write up. It is such an inspiration.

I know I will not be doing justice in attempting a reply to everything you have written above, so I will just make a few points as time permits me.

I believe strongly in giving to the poor, just as I believe strongly in giving to those who feed me spiritually. Both are commanded in the NT. One should not be done at the expense of the other. As to giving to the poor, the NT is also clear that priority should go first to those of the Household of Faith.

I learnt long ago from from my Pastor and Jesse Duplantis, that giving should be in obedience to God and not so much as need. I'll explain. Whatsoever we do must be borne out of faith which is a response to God's Word. Jesse Duplantis told the story of how God instructed him to pay off the mortgage of an apparently wealthy man. He got some flack from doing same from people who felt he had spent his money wrongly. His response? I gave that money to him in obedience to God's instruction. Do you that Elijah went into a the house of a gentile widow and met her needs even though there were millions in Isreal who needed same provision? God moves in response to faith and not to needs. That explains why some people are healed of their disease while others are not. All have healing needs, but only those with faith get healing except during the operation of the gifts of the Spirit which the Lord isters as He alone wills.

As for the tithe, I must confess that there isn't a strong backing for it in the NT in as much as there is no instruction against it. I notice you keep lumping tithes together as a ritual under the law. That is not true. Tithing predates the law. It was established before the law came, and I have no reason to believe it was abolished with the law. Tithing was brought into the law and not the other way round. I know this is a very contentious issue, but I will onish you to believe the best of your brothers and not assume many do it because they want to steal from their flock. It is what they believe needs to be done.

Stay blessed brother.

Tayo-D

Shades of old battles --- but I won't go on at length, just a couple of observations.

1. Tithing was not established before the law. One person did it voluntarily that we know of for sure. Another said he would do it on condition that he was first blessed and we don't even know if he did do it. Before the law no one, absolutely no one in the Bible was instructed or even advised to tithe.

2. Please not Jesse Duplantis --- an inveterate liar and false teacher.

3. God does respond to need; example being the crippled guy at the beautiful gate healed by Peter --- what was his "faith" when all he wanted was money? Realy, it is mostly word of faith doctrine that suggests this idea that it is all about "faith" rather than the sovereignty of God Himself.

@Enigma,

Shades of old battles --- but I won't go on at length, just a couple of observations

Absolutely.  And it continues still today.

1. Tithing was not established before the law. One person did it voluntarily that we know of for sure. Another said he would do it on condition that he was first blessed and we don't even know if he did do it. Before the law no one, absolutely no one in the Bible was instructed or even advised to tithe.

Tithing predates the law.  This cannot be argued away.  If you will argue against tithing, please don't bring the law into it because it circumscribes it.  That is my point.

2. Please not Jesse Duplantis --- an inveterate liar and false teacher.

You know this for sure or you are just a mouthpiece of the enemy?

3. God does respond to need; example being the crippled guy at the beauty gate healed by Peter --- what was his "faith" when all he wanted was money? Realy, it is mostly word of faith doctrine that suggests this idea that it is all about "faith" rather than the sovereignty of God Himself.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I mentioned the only time this happens is when the gifts of the Spirit are in operation.  The gifts are operated according to God's will.  It does not require faith on the part of the recipient.  God respond to faith all the time like the woman with the issue of blood.

@ tayo-d

I commend your approach on this tithe issue. Though I don't agree 100% with your post, the maturity of your response reassures that there are still sensible folks out there who can construct there arguments positively.

I believe the new generation pastors have abused the concept of tithes and offerings. Their lifestyle contradicts the humility Jesus exemplified.

Hopefully we can have a constructive chat when I'm chanced. We can both learn a thing or two without the interference of militant Christians. You'll notice them by their shameful posts.

Nice one dude.

Tayo-D:

@Enigma,
Absolutely.  And it continues still today.

Tayo-D:
Tithing predates the law.  This cannot be argued away.  If you will argue against tithing, please don't bring the law into it because it circumscribes it.  That is my point.

What kind of tithing predates the law - voluntary or compulsory tithing? Meanwhile Abel's sacrifice predates the law --- so why is that not applicable today? What of circumcision?

Tayo-D:
You know this for sure or you are just a mouthpiece of the enemy?

Yes, I do -- it's called tried and found wanting. Meanwhile it's no big deal to be called "a mouthpiece of the enemy"   --- it is what we get all the time when we take on the doctrines of anti-Christs like Jesse Duplantis, so no biggie.

Tayo-D:
If you read my post carefully, you will see that I mentioned the only time this happens is when the gifts of the Spirit are in operation.  The gifts are operated according to God's will.  It does not require faith on the part of the recipient.  God respond to faith all the time like the woman with the issue of blood.

Yeah right, if God responds to faith "all the time" people won't need to keep running back to the prosperity gospel pimps; they won't need to attend the same recycled "programmes" under various headings: "open heavens", "divine visitation", "favour conference" etc etc etc  

@Enigma,

What kind of tithing predates the law - voluntary or compulsory tithing? Meanwhile Abel's sacrifice predates the law --- so why is that not applicable today? What of circumcision?

What is your point? That tithing should be voluntary, compulsory or eliminated. Make it clear. I don't know anything about the sacrifice of Abel, nor that of Cain. Do you have more info about them? As to circumcision, that is properly addressed in the NT. You disagree?

Yes, I do -- it's called tried and found wanting. Meanwhile it's no big deal to be called "a mouthpiece of the enemy" --- it is what we get all the time when we take on the doctrines of anti-Christs like Jesse Duplantis, so no biggie

Doctrinally too, you've been found wanting. Does that make you you also a liar and a false teacher? There is only one anti-christ, so I do not know where you get the many anti-christs from. You know, some people also found Jesus wanting when they declared that he was too flamboyant, drinking wine and eating luxuriously. He was too prosperous minded and lived such a life that he irritated them.

Yeah right, if God responds to faith "all the time" people won't need to keep running back to the prosperity gospel pimps; they won't need to attend the same recycled "programmes" under various headings: "open heavens", "divine visitation", "favour conference" etc etc etc

You have the liberty to teach people that faith does not assure them of anything from God. As for me and my house we will follow Jesus' doctrine that even a little faith will go so far to do much.

Tayo-D:

@Enigma,
What is your point? That tithing should be voluntary, compulsory or eliminated.  Make it clear.

The point is simple: "tithing" is NOT a Christian obligation and should not be so taught as is widely done today, sometimes with curses and even threats of "hell".

Tayo-D:
I don't know anything about the sacrifice of Abel, nor that of Cain.  Do you have more info about them?

I think you will find it helpful to study it; you will even find that Abel's sacrifice even predates Abram's "tithing"! So why is it not done today?

Tayo-D:
As to circumcision, that is properly addressed in the NT.  You disagree?

In just the same way that "tithing" has been properly addressed in the New Testament. Neither of them is an obligation for a Christian!

Tayo-D:
Doctrinally too, you've been found wanting.  Does that make you you also a liar and a false teacher?

You will first have to show me where I've been found wanting. If you do, I will hold my hands up that I was a false teacher on that point.

Tayo-D:
There is only one anti-christ, so I do not know where you get the many anti-christs from.

I think you need to read the New Testament again. We are told that there are many anti-Christs in the world today. You see, your error on this makes you prone to being misled by them!

Tayo-D:
You know, some people also found Jesus wanting when they declared that he was too flamboyant, drinking wine and eating luxuriously.  He was too prosperous minded and lived such a life that he irritated them.

Because He associated with "sinners" and drank alcohol, Jesus was a "prosperity preacher"? Come on, my brother!

Tayo-D:

You have the liberty to teach people that faith does not assure them of anything from God.  As for me and my house we will follow Jesus' doctrine that even a little faith will go so far to do much.

I teach people about the sovereignty of God - Ọba a ṣe eyi ti o wu'un!

[/quote][quote]

@Enigma,

The point is simple: "tithing" is NOT a Christian obligation and should not be so taught as is widely done today, sometimes with curses and even threats of "hell".

I disagree with you that it is not a relevant truth today.  Come to think of it, you are no different than those who rain curses and threaten people with hell when they don't pay their tithe.  You are only on the flip side of the same coin by calling those who preach and practice it anti-Christs.

I think you will find it helpful to study it; you will even find that Abel's sacrifice even predates Abram's "tithing"! So why is it not done today?

The sacrifice of Abel was not adopted by the law just as justice, mercy, faith, tithing and a host of other virtues.  These all predate and circumscribe the law even though they were adopted by it.

In just the same way that "tithing" has been properly addressed in the New Testament. Neither of them is an obligation for a Christian!

Pray tell, where in the NT has the issue of tithing been addressed with a view of eliminating it?  If anything at all, evidence exists to its practice.

You will first have to show me where I've been found wanting. If you do, I will hold my hands up that I was a false teacher on that point

Calling a fellow-brother an anti-Christ is enough for you to fall down on your knees and ask God for forgiveness.  You are not rightfully discerning the body, which is why Paul said the Corinthian Christians were weak, sick and in some cases dying.  The main reason why I took a hiatus from this forum is because I felt I was as guilty as many in not properly discerning the body.  For the sake of winning an argument, we are ready to abuse our brothers, call them names and surly their character.  It appears things have not changed that much and I am this close to taking another exit.

I think you need to read the New Testament again. We are told that there are many anti-Christs in the world today. You see, your error on this makes you prone to being misled by them!

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Antichrists are those who deny the Father and the Son.  Please tell me, how does Jesse Duplantis qualify as an antiChrist?  I know you believe in sovereignty, but it does not apply with the interpretation of scripture.

Because He associated with "sinners" and drank alcohol, Jesus was a "prosperity preacher"? Come on, my brother!

Please take the advise you freely gave to me and read that NT again.  The main reason why he was accused and slandered was because he was eating and drinking and living a prosperous life contrary to John the Baptist's way.  You just see what you want to see in every scripture.

I teach people about the sovereignty of God - Ọba a ṣe eyi ti o wu'un!

The doctrine of "que cera"!  Now we know where you stand.  What is the point of praying, asking, believing, faith if what will be will be? Why preach the Gospel?  God will save whoever he wants, right? Why preach healing?  God will heal whoever He wants, right?

Tayo-D:

@Enigma,
I disagree with you that it is not a relevant truth today.  Come to think of it, you are no different than those who rain curses and threaten people with hell when they don't pay their tithe.  You are only on the flip side of the same coin by calling those who preach and practice it anti-Christs.
The sacrifice of Abel was not adopted by the law just as justice, mercy, faith, tithing and a host of other virtues.  These all predate and circumscribe the law even though they were adopted by it.
Pray tell, where in the NT has the issue of tithing been addressed with a view of eliminating it?  If anything at all, evidence exists to its practice.
Calling a fellow-brother an anti-Christ is enough for you to fall down on your knees and ask God for forgiveness.  You are not rightfully discerning the body, which is why Paul said the Corinthian Christians were weak, sick and in some cases dying.  The main reason why I took a hiatus from this forum is because I felt I was as guilty as many in not properly discerning the body.  For the sake of winning an argument, we are ready to abuse our brothers, call them names and surly their character.  It appears things have not changed that much and I am this close to taking another exit.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Antichrists are those who deny the Father and the Son.  Please tell me, how does Jesse Duplantis qualify as an antiChrist?  I know you believe in sovereignty, but it does not apply with the interpretation of scripture.
Please take the advise you freely gave to me and read that NT again.  The main reason why he was accused and slandered was because he was eating and drinking and living a prosperous life contrary to John the Baptist's way.  You just see what you want to see in every scripture.
The doctrine of "que cera"!  Now we know where you stand.  What is the point of praying, asking, believing, faith if what will be will be? Why preach the Gospel?  God will save whoever he wants, right? Why preach healing?  God will heal whoever He wants, right? 

2 things I want to mention :


1. If you practise tithing, then practise it the biblical way and do not leave out any dot or iota

For example in this age, the Israelites were commanded to bring their tithe ONLY after THREE years and it was specifically for the Levites and poor.

"At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands." - Deut 14:28-29



2. Why can we not use the money to buy strong drink and be merry

Deut 14:26 (NAS) "And you may spend the money for whatever your heart desires, for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household."

"Let us not, then, trifle with the form of things. The reality is here. Jesus is our Sabbath rest, our tithe feast, our Lamb of sacrifice, and our leader, example, and reason for sacrificial giving and living."  - http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_tithe.html

Tayo-D:

@Enigma,
I disagree with you that it is not a relevant truth today. 

Of course you are free to disagree and we can agree to disagree agreeably.  

Tayo-D:
Come to think of it, you are no different than those who rain curses and threaten people with hell when they don't pay their tithe.  You are only on the flip side of the same coin by calling those who preach and practice it anti-Christs.

1. I do not rain curses on people or threaten them with "hell".

2. I do not call people anti-Christs simply because they preach "tithing"; even now I still occasionally attend churches where they preach "tithing" especially when I'm in Nigeria.

Tayo-D:
The sacrifice of Abel was not adopted by the law just as justice, mercy, faith, tithing and a host of other virtues.  These all predate and circumscribe the law even though they were adopted by it.

Actually, Abel's sacrifice (or, if you like, its type) was adopted into the law. On the other hand, if you say that like tithing it "circumscribes" the law, why then is it not applicale today ---- but "tithing" is?

Tayo-D:
Pray tell, where in the NT has the issue of tithing been addressed with a view of eliminating it?  If anything at all, evidence exists to its practice.

Read for example Hebrews 7 which actually addresses "tithing". Read also various ages on the doing away of the law and the ushering of the era of grace under the New Testament.

Tayo-D:
Calling a fellow-brother an anti-Christ is enough for you to fall down on your knees and ask God for forgiveness.  You are not rightfully discerning the body, which is why Paul said the Corinthian Christians were weak, sick and in some cases dying.  The main reason why I took a hiatus from this forum is because I felt I was as guilty as many in not properly discerning the body.  For the sake of winning an argument, we are ready to abuse our brothers, call them names and surly their character.  It appears things have not changed that much and I am this close to taking another exit.

This is the thing: I don't call a "brother" an anti-Christ; I call those who seek to circumvent the teachings of Christ and His gospel anti-Christs. I don't even call some "tithe" preachers anti-Christs.

Tayo-D:
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Antichrists are those who deny the Father and the Son.  Please tell me, how does Jesse Duplantis qualify as an antiChrist?  I know you believe in sovereignty, but it does not apply with the interpretation of scripture.

If you know Jesse Duplantis' teachings as well as I do and weigh them against scriptures, you will realise why he is a danger to Christ's gospel!

Tayo-D:
Please take the advise you freely gave to me and read that NT again.  The main reason why he was accused and slandered was because he was eating and drinking and living a prosperous life contrary to John the Baptist's way.  You just see what you want to see in every scripture.

The same Jesus who had nowhere to lay His head? The same Jesus who had no money to pay due tax? The same Jesus who preached heavily against focus on material riches"? Pleeeeeease!

Tayo-D:
The doctrine of "que cera"!  Now we know where you stand.  What is the point of praying, asking, believing, faith if what will be will be? Why preach the Gospel?  God will save whoever he wants, right? Why preach healing?  God will heal whoever He wants, right? 

No, it is the doctrine of the sovereignty of God who can and does do as He wills. We pray to be in His will and to be able to accept it --- even if His answer is "My grace is sufficient for thee".  

@frosbel,

"At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands." - Deut 14:28-29

I see a principle here if anything at all. The tithe is meant for those who minister God's word and do so on a full time basis. This is consistent with the NT where Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9: 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. The tithe is obviously the way to pay for the daily living of those who are full-time ministers of the Word. These scriptures are clearly complimentary.

@Enigma,

Of course you are free to disagree and we can agree to disagree agreeably.

Agreed!

1. I do not rain curses on people or threaten them with "hell".

Not in so many words, I'd say!

2. I do not call people anti-Christs simply because they preach "tithing"; even now I still occasionally attend churches where they preach "tithing" especially when I'm in Nigeria.

The Bible clearly states who is an antiChrist. Your use of that term is not rooted in the scriptures. That is my point.

Actually, Abel's sacrifice (or, if you like, its type) was adopted into the law. On the other hand, if you say that like tithing it "circumscribes" the law, why then is it not applicale today ---- but "tithing" is?

There is no indication that Abel's sacrifice was adopted by the law. If anything at all, it was Cain's type that was adopted by the law, i.e. blood sacrifice. These have their origins in the garden of Eden.

Anyway, you missed my point totally. Mercy, kindness, obedience, faith were adopted by the law even though they predate the law. Are they also done with because they were adopted by the law?

Read for example Hebrews 7 which actually addresses "tithing". Read also various ages on the doing away of the law and the ushering of the era of grace under the New Testament.

If anything at all, Hebrews 7 is a clear testament that the tithe transcends the law. Have you read verse 8 of that chapter? It clearly indicates that Jesus receives the tithe even though he is testified to live forever. I can't prove it nor do I make it a doctrine, but I strongly believe we will still pay tithe when we take up our roles and responsibilities in the ages to come. Tithe is an eternal thing in so far that it transcends the physical. Hebrews 7:8 testifies as much.

This is the thing: I don't call a "brother" an anti-Christ; I call those who seek to circumvent the teachings of Christ and His gospel anti-Christs. I don't even call some "tithe" preachers anti-Christs.

You may call whomever you like antichrist. That's your prerogative. As far as the scripture is concerned, only those who deny the Father and the Son qualifies as such. Your reluctance to accept this truth and submit to the Lordship of the Word makes me wary of you, even though you are a brother!

If you know Jesse Duplantis' teachings as well as I do and weigh them against scriptures, you will realise why he is a danger to Christ's gospel!

I dare say he has led more people to Christ and testified of the living Christ to more nations than you will ever achieve in your lifetime. Keep knocking down your own while posturing as a defender of the faith.

The same Jesus who had nowhere to lay His head? The same Jesus who had no money to pay due tax? The same Jesus who preached heavily against focus on material riches"? Pleeeeeease!

That he had no where to lay his head does not mean he could not afford one. This is the person that was responsible not just for himself but for the upkeep of at least 12 Disciples and their families. Jesus went into Peter's house to heal his mother in law, ? Are you for real about the tax? He had the means to pay for it. Whether it was through the treasure bag or through the fish that swallowed a lost coin. Prosperity is being able to pay your bills when it is due. He paid His. That you should not trust in material riches doesn't mean you should not have it. If prosperity is bad, people like abraham, Job, David, Solomon sure aren't worth emulating.

No, it is the doctrine of the sovereignty of God who can and does do as He wills. We pray to be in His will and to be able to accept it --- even if His answer is "My grace is sufficient for thee".

Stop deceiving yourself. If you believe in God's sovereignty, you will believe in the sovereignty of His Word. His sovereignty works within the confines of His Word. Show me where God sovereignty has ever contradicted His Word and I will forever hold my peace. Why would anyone ever trust His Word if it can be violated by an act of His sovereignty?

Tayo-D:

@Enigma,

The Bible clearly states who is an antiChrist.  Your use of that term is not rooted in the scriptures.  That is my point.

Nah, my use of the word 'anti-Christ' is well rooted in scripture. Compare what Jesus said: many will say, did I not heal, cast out demons etc etc "in your name" and He said He will still tell them He did not know them. So you see, the denial does not have to be overt; in fact, the covert denial is the more dangerous and the covert deniers are within the biblical meaning of 'anti-Christs'.

Tayo-D:
There is no indication that Abel's sacrifice was adopted by the law.  If anything at all, it was Cain's type that was adopted by the law, i.e. blood sacrifice.  These have their origins in the garden of Eden.

I only have enough energy to say you are wrong and need to study it again.

Tayo-D:
Anyway, you missed my point totally.  Mercy, kindness, obedience, faith were adopted by the law even though they predate the law.  Are they also done with because they were adopted by the law?

Actually, I did not miss your point at all. "Thou shall not kill" predated the law, was part of the law and is still applicable. Tithing was not established bybefore the law and we only have a voluntary example before the law; it was part of the law and as part of the law it has been abolished; at best, an individual can choose to do it voluntarily today --- BUT there is NO obligation whatsoever to tithe as far as the Christian is concerned.

Tayo-D:
If anything at all, Hebrews 7 is a clear testament that the tithe transcends the law.  Have you read verse 8 of that chapter?  It clearly indicates that Jesus receives the tithe even though he is testified to live forever.  I can't prove it nor do I make it a doctrine, but I strongly believe we will still pay tithe when we take up our roles and responsibilities in the ages to come.  Tithe is an eternal thing in so far that it transcends the physical.  Hebrews 7:8 testifies as much.

1. Read the entire Hebrews 7 again and especially verses 5, 12 and 18.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by "ages to come" but the view (well, your belief) that tithing will still be required in some "future time"(?) can be described as nothing but fanciful.

Tayo-D:
You may call whomever you like antichrist.  That's your prerogative.  As far as the scripture is concerned, only those who deny the Father and the Son qualifies as such.  Your reluctance to accept this truth and submit to the Lordship of the Word makes me wary of you, even though you are a brother! I dare say he has led more people to Christ and testified of the living Christ to more nations than you will ever achieve in your lifetime. Keep knocking down your own while posturing as a defender of the faith.

Again, what Christ said: even though many will say 'we performed miracles, cast out demons, prophesied' "in your name", yet He will say He never knew them and that they were workers of iniquity.

Tayo-D:
That he had no where to lay his head does not mean he could not afford one.  This is the person that was responsible not just for himself but for the upkeep of at least 12 Disciples and their families.  Jesus went into Peter's house to heal his mother in law, ? Are you for real about the tax? He had the means to pay for it. Whether it was through the treasure bag or through the fish that swallowed a lost coin.  Prosperity is being able to pay your bills when it is due. He paid His.  That you should not trust in material riches doesn't mean you should not have it. If prosperity is bad, people like abraham, Job, David, Solomon sure aren't worth emulating.

You have bought into the technique of false teachers, I'm afraid. Put out a bit of truth but conceal falsehood in it: who said Jesus was necessarily responsible for the upkeep of his crew? That is why he sometimes used Peter's (mother-in-law's) house! Was it Jesus who bought or built it for him/her?

Oh, I am very for real about the tax; He had no money to pay it --- and yes, He obtained it from a fish. Which "prosperous" person would need to do that?

Tayo-D:
Stop deceiving yourself.  If you believe in God's sovereignty, you will believe in the sovereignty of His Word.  His sovereignty works within the confines of His Word.  Show me where God sovereignty has ever contradicted His Word and I will forever hold my peace.  Why would anyone ever trust His Word if it can be violated by an act of His sovereignty?

I know the teaching well --- 'he honours his word above his name' and all that. The sovereign God knows the condition of man and has His plans to address it: that does not mean every one will be "prosperous", "healed" etc. As Jesus Himself said: "the poor you will always have with you." Also, I know the typical word of faith answer to that ----- sin, not availing oneself of God's provision, lack of faith etc. In that case, why did Peter Paul, James, Stephen etc etc etc etc suffer so much. Why did God tell Paul "My grace is sufficient for thee" rather than remove Paul's problem?


Anyway, I think I have done enough and I have reached the point to disagree agreeably. 

EDITED