NewStats: 3,263,895 , 8,181,794 topics. Date: Sunday, 08 June 2025 at 04:27 PM 3v5360

MaxInDHouse:


When i take the whole Bible together it's clear that Jesus is the archangel Michael!

Then you'll be lying to yourself. "Michael" is shorter answer than "Son of the Living God", which was the CORRECT answer Peter gave when Jesus asked them directly whom they thought he was. No one ever mentioned Michael anywhere in their conversations - yet that's what Jesus was! Forget governing board and think about it yourself. Also see below

QuinQ:


God gave YOU a brain. Use it! He didn't give you Trinitarians or JW governing body. He gave you a brain! Use it for a change! Forget about Trinitarians and governing boards and THINK for a change! Think FOR YOURSELF for a change!
(I know I'm wasting my time)😅



Nope. When you take EVERYTHING together you'd be very SURE that's not what it means. It's not just that Jesus Himself claimed to be God, OT said God was coming to visit us, Jews tried to stone Jesus for claiming to be God, Jesus was called the Alpha and Omega, no one ever said that once you've seen Peter you've seen Jesus, or that once you’ve Paul you've seen Peter, no one ever tried to stone Peter for claiming to be Jesus, etc. When you take all these together it becomes very clear what was meant!

in the book of revelation, jesus actually said I am alpha (the begining) and omega (the end). Leave JW, let them perish in wilful ignorance

QuinQ:

Then you'll be lying to yourself. "Michael" is shorter answer than "Son of the Living God", which was the CORRECT answer Peter gave when Jesus asked them directly whom they thought he was. No one ever mentioned Michael anywhere in their conversations - yet that's what Jesus was! Forget governing board and think about it yourself. Also see below

Yes Peter said "God's son" not "God" o!

Ruke1991:
jesus actually said I am alpha (the begining) and omega (the end). Leave JW, let them perish in wilful ignorance

What is the implication of beginning and end?

MaxInDHouse:


What is the implication of beginning and end?

did you actually see jesus telling someone your sins are forgiven in the bible? And the Jews getting angry like you are angry right now that jesus has no power to forgive sins but only the father. Did Jesus agree to that nonsense. Even your own sins can only be forgiven by Jesus.. so if you like doubt the fact that he is God

Jesus asked the Jews: which is easier? To simply say be healed or to say your sins are forgiven? But that he said it so that the Jews can know he has the power to forgive sins. Bible says Jesus was the creator, jesus forgives sins and that jesus seats in the very right hand side of the father- what does that tell you? It tells you that the father and Jesus are co-rulers pending when the future earthly kingdom is handed over to Jesus.

If the palace of Emir of Sokoto has two king stools and two kings are always seated side by side, you will now be saying they don't share same form of existence or one is a low budget king while the other is the ultimate king. Does that make sense

No angel Michael or moses can forgive sins. If not Lucifer could have forgiven himself of his sin and he won't be thrown out of heaven

He couldn't address my post point by point

Janosky:
STATUS is NOT nature.

Good!

So, why did you talk about STATUS when the discussion was about NATURE?

Definitely, Jesus has God's Nature.

Did Jesus share God's nature?
Yes, they share the nature of Spirits.

1 Corinthians 11:3 , Hebrew 6:13,John 14:28 "God the Father is greater than Jesus his son.

SPIRIT is equivalent to PHYSICAL

God's NATURE is what made Him to be God and no one else can have that NATURE.

No! Jesus EXISTS IN God's NATURE not SHARE.

Phil 2:6

you already agreed that Jesus HAS GOD'S NATURE.

Is Jesus equal with God his Father?
1 Corinthians 11:3 , Hebrew 6:13,John 14:28 says NO.

Yes!

Jesus is EQUAL TO THE FATHER

Phil 2:6

emusan share human nature with his Father.
Are you equal with your Father?
No.
Your Father is the Head of your Family,not you his son.

I didn't SHARE human NATURE with my Father.

I EXIST in Human Nature and that makes me to be EQUAL with my father as HUMAN

So, Jesus EXISTS IN God's NATURE and that makes Him to be GOD.

There's no how you can twist that.

Make UNA continue dey deceive yourselves

Does your father greater than you by NATURE as per human?

Let me see if you can answer that.

MaxInDHouse:


Yes Peter said "God's son" not "God" o!

Jesus called himself son of man and son of God
Because, according to scriptures, the spirit of God planted him in Mary's womb. There is a God-Man collabo leading to his birth. Just like you surrogacy. He could rightly call himself son of man (through Mary - the surrogate mother) and son of God (the Spirit that implanted him). Try to understand bible through your independent mind - leave what the elders taught you on one side and reason it.

Old testament said, God said, let US create man in our image. That US alone and the many other places including John 1:1-3 suppose make you relax. Jesus is the creator of the world. How then is he not God according to those scriptures I listed. Or are you trying to say angel Michael created all things? Wetin Lucifer - Michael former boss come create if na Michael create all things. Or you don't know Michael had a boss. Angels are creatures of God - not creators. Therefore, jesus cannot be an angel

MaxInDHouse:
What is the implication of beginning and end?

The implementation is that the person who made that statement is claiming to the UNCREATED and you know only God is UNCREATED.

Emusan:


The implementation is that the person who made that statement is claiming to the UNCREATED and you know only God is UNCREATED.

As simple as that! 👀

"The dog that will lose its way will not hear the hunter's whistle". Let them be, they are in delusion 🙃.

Ruke1991:
did you actually see jesus telling someone your sins are forgiven in the bible? And the Jews getting angry like you are angry right now that jesus has no power to forgive sins but only the father. Did Jesus agree to that nonsense. Even your own sins can only be forgiven by Jesus.. so if you like doubt the fact that he is God

Jesus asked the Jews: which is easier? To simply say be healed or to say your sins are forgiven? But that he said it so that the Jews can know he has the power to forgive sins. Bible says Jesus was the creator, jesus forgives sins and that jesus seats in the very right hand side of the father- what does that tell you? It tells you that the father and Jesus are co-rulers pending when the future earthly kingdom is handed over to Jesus.

If the palace of Emir of Sokoto has two king stools and two kings are always seated side by side, you will now be saying they don't share same form of existence or one is a low budget king while the other is the ultimate king. Does that make sense

No angel Michael or moses can forgive sins. If not Lucifer could have forgiven himself of his sin and he won't be thrown out of heaven

Guy, what is the implication of beginning and the end?

Ruke1991:

Jesus called himself son of man and son of God
Because, according to scriptures, the spirit of God planted him in Mary's womb. There is a God-Man collabo leading to his birth. Just like you surrogacy. He could rightly call himself son of man (through Mary - the surrogate mother) and son of God (the Spirit that implanted him). Try to understand bible through your independent mind - leave what the elders taught you on one side and reason it.

Old testament said, God said, let US create man in our image. That US alone and the many other places including John 1:1-3 suppose make you relax. Jesus is the creator of the world. How then is he not God according to those scriptures I listed. Or are you trying to say angel Michael created all things? Wetin Lucifer - Michael former boss come create if na Michael create all things. Or you don't know Michael had a boss. Angels are creatures of God - not creators. Therefore, jesus cannot be an angel

So he is God's Son not God shey?

Emusan:

The implementation is that the person who made that statement is claiming to the UNCREATED and you know only God is UNCREATED.

Thank you for the simple answer jàre but you're wrong because God doesn't have a beginning nor end.
So that's not the implication of what Jesus said!

QuinQ:


Then you'll be lying to yourself. "Michael" is shorter answer than "Son of the Living God", which was the CORRECT answer Peter gave when Jesus asked them directly whom they thought he was. No one ever mentioned Michael anywhere in their conversations - yet that's what Jesus was! Forget governing board and think about it yourself. Also see below

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Angels don't worship angels. Angels worship God.
Here is the father commanding angels to worship Jesus. The word worship used here is the original greek word for worship - not obeisance but real worship.

Any reasonable JW member by reading this verse will realize their elders lied when they said Jesus is not God or cannot be worshipped. They also lied when they said Jesus is angel Michael. God cannot ask Angels to worship a fellow Angel. You forget say satan fall because he wanted his own throne so he can be worshipped? Jesus belonged to the Godhead, that's why angels are commanded to worship him

Ruke1991:


Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Angels don't worship angels. Angels worship God.
Here is the father commanding angels to worship Jesus. The word worship used here is the original greek word for worship - not obeisance but real worship.

Any reasonable JW member by reading this verse will realize their elders lied when they said Jesus is not God or cannot be worshipped. They also lied when they said Jesus is angel Michael. Angel cannot worship angel

Thank you.
MaxInDHouse memorize that verse, Heb 1:6, since you like cherrypicking the Bible. You and Janosky

MaxInDHouse:

So he is God's Son not God shey?

He is GOD the Son of God

QuinQ:

He is GOD the Son of God

Says you not Bible!

QuinQ:

Thank you.
MaxInDHouse memorize that verse, Heb 1:6, since you like cherrypicking the Bible. You and Janosky

You people need to learn from Jehovah's Witnesses who don't misquote verses of God's word!

MaxInDHouse:

Thank you for the simple answer jàre but you're wrong because God doesn't have a beginning nor end.
So that's not the implication of what Jesus said!

How does this relate to his statement? Infact your strawman benefits him more! "Uncreated" connotes lack of beginning nor end😂😂😂.

Jesus was basically saying all things have their beginning and end in me! 👀 Which implies he hath no beginning nor end because "time", the concept of beginning and end, has its beginning in Jesus! 🤨

Gabrielshow24:

Jesus was basically saying all things have their beginning

So a time is coming when all things including angels in heaven will end shey?

MaxInDHouse:

Says you not Bible!

MaxInDHouse:

You people need to learn from Jehovah's Witnesses who don't misquote verses of God's word!

The problem is that after all the memorizing and cherrypicking you still go back to the JW governing body to tellyou what to say and think!😅

MaxInDHouse:

So a time is coming when all things including angels in heaven will end shey?

Anything that is ed to God has life! Like you said "in heaven"!🤨

Thus, "in heaven" they all partake of the life of God hence they have no end! Anything not ed to God will die and perish! Hence all things have their beginning and end in him! Space, Time and matter!

QuinQ:




The problem is that after all the memorizing and cherrypicking you still go back to the JW governing body to tellyou what to say and think

And that's why I call them zombie(s)!🧟

QuinQ:

The problem is that after all the memorizing and cherrypicking you still go back yo the JW governing body to tellyou what to say andvthink

Whatever you wish to say at least JWs don't misquote scriptures which evidence of something:

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. John 14:26

Someone said the above that's the same person we discovered to be "Michael" the one standing for the salvation of God's people! Daniel 12:1

Gabrielshow24:

Thus, "in heaven" they all partake of the life of God hence they have no end!

So what is the meaning of beginning and the end?

MaxInDHouse:

So what is the meaning of beginning and the end?

It's self explanatory 🤨.
No one buys that "jejune" narrative of "beginning of sin and end of sin"👀. Thus, without prepositional phrases, what's the actual meaning of beginning and end?

Gabrielshow24:
It's self explanatory 🤨.
No one buys that "jejune" narrative of "beginning of sin and end of sin"👀. Thus, without prepositional phrases, what's the actual meaning of beginning and end?

So Jesus started sin and ended it shey?

MaxInDHouse:

So Jesus started sin and ended it shey?

Strawman🤣🤣🤣! ALL THINGS WERE MADE FOR HIM AND BY HIM!

How you managed to draw sin from this is so alarming? —Although at this point no one is surprised👀! Even a child can't use sin as a rebuttal to the absolute fact that Jesus is the beginning and the end! 🤨

Maybe you should think again, and kindly provide a reasonable objection not this preposterous posit🤣🤣🤣!

Gabrielshow24:
Even a child can't use sin as a rebuttal to the absolute fact that Jesus is the beginning and the end! 🤨

Beginning and end of what exactly?

MaxInDHouse:

Beginning and end of what exactly?

The term 'beginning' does not require a prepositional phrase to be understood clearly. Within the context of Scripture, Jesus is both the beginning and the end of all things. Everything originated from Him, and ultimately, everything returns to Him.

In contrast, the naive explanation you propose—that Jesus is the beginning of sin and the end of sin—requires considerable mental gymnastics. You suggest that He was present when sin began and will also be there when it ends. However, these interpretations are not easily inferred from the initial phrase. Even if we were to entertain this absurd explanation, 'beginning' would not be an appropriate term. Instead, Jesus should refer to Himself as a witness to the first sin and a witness to the last sin, rather than using 'beginning' and 'end,' which imply something entirely different. 👀

Ultimately, let God be true, and let men be liars!

Gabrielshow24:

The term 'beginning' does not require a prepositional phrase to be understood clearly. Within the context of Scripture, Jesus is both the beginning and the end of all things. Everything originated from Him, and ultimately, everything returns to Him.
In contrast, the naive explanation you propose—that Jesus is the beginning of sin and the end of sin—requires considerable mental gymnastics. You suggest that He was present when sin began and will also be there when it ends. However, these interpretations are not easily inferred from the initial phrase. Even if we were to entertain this absurd explanation, 'beginning' would not be an appropriate term. Instead, Jesus should refer to Himself as a witness to the first sin and a witness to the last sin, rather than using 'beginning' and 'end,' which imply something entirely different. 👀
Ultimately, let God be true, and let men be liars!

What is the meaning of beginning and the end?

MaxInDHouse:


What is the meaning of beginning and the end?

All this puerile tactic won't help you 😂😂😂.

MaxInDHouse:

Whatever you wish to say at least JWs don't misquote scriptures which evidence of something:

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. John 14:26

Someone said the above that's the same person we discovered to be "Michael" the one standing for the salvation of God's people! Daniel 12:1

You know full well from reading your Bible that Jesus Christ CAN'T be Michael but JW governing board won't let you. You know full well Michael has been coming to earth without fanfare and has never in any way claimed particularly close relationship with God talkless of saying if you see him you've seen God!