NewStats: 3,260,867 , 8,172,852 topics. Date: Tuesday, 27 May 2025 at 10:14 PM 49432

The verse is Micah 5:2:

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The verse above clearly prophesies about the Messiah, Jesus Christ and clearly states that His going forth is from EVERLASTING. That is to say, He is from eternity past. He has no beginning. Some translations translated the word 'owlams' as ancient times instead of Everlasting. However, META AI clarifies that the term 'Ancient Times" as used by some translators shouldn't be seen as a time calculated within the time of earth but that it means that Christ had been existing before time was created. I have attached a screenshot from Meta AI for your perusal.

I have also attached a screenshot from the original Hebrew Interlinear rendering of the verse. The Hebrew word OWLAMS actually means Everlasting. Jesus is from Everlasting. From eternity past. He had no beginning. The only person who has no beginning is God. Hence if Both God and the Messiah have no beginning, then God is the one who manifested Himself as the Messiah. This will make you understand why Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am" - John 8:58.

No matter the scripture you may want to quote as a Jehovah Witness or as any other worshipper of some false gods, it does not negate the fact that Jesus was from Everlasting as stated in this scripture. Jesus is not Angel Michael. Jehovah Witnesses are peddlers of demonic doctrines. This verse further establishes the truth about the Trinity.

If you have not embraced Jesus, I onish you to come to Jesus today. Do not listen to the lies of satan. Religion cannot save you. Only God can save you by Himself. And this God is He who manifested Himself to man through Jesus Christ the Savior. His hands are stretched forth today, "No one gets unto the Father except through Him" John 14:6. And be rest assured, anyone that comes to Him, He will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.

No one can save you from God's wrath which is coming upon this sinful world. Only God can, and He will do it through Jesus - the One who is from Everlasting to Everlasting.

God is also all-knowing.
Please explain:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

DaddyCoool:
God is also all-knowing.
Please explain:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

Does that negate the fact that the Messiah is from everlasting? No!

Jesus was not fully God in the days of His flesh. Neither was He fully man.

Modified

Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. My statement above was in error but I appreciate my brother, Steep for correcting me.

However, to answer the question of why Christ didn't know the time of His coming, it is not a matter of Christ not being all knowing but a matter of respecting the separate responsibilities of the Father and Son. The matter of the timing is exclusively the Father's responsibility.

Even when Jesus said in John 8:58, "Before Abraham was, I am" The statement cannot be attributed to someone who had a begining.

The correct statement for a man to make even if such a man had existed before Abraham is "Before Abraham was, I was ."

But Jesus didn't say, He was. He said 'He is ' "Before Abraham was, I am". Meaning I have always being. I've always been existing before Abraham. I have no beginning. I am. There's no time in which I have not existed. I have always existed. I am. Not, "I was."

DaddyCoool:
God is also all-knowing.
Please explain:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

That's an interesting scripture you have put there.



Matthew 24:36, where Jesus says, "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only," has profound parallels with the customs of a Jewish marriage in Jesus' time. These customs offer a rich metaphor for understanding the relationship between Christ and His Church and the timing of His second coming.

1. The Betrothal (Kiddushin)

In Jewish tradition, a marriage began with a betrothal, a formal agreement that legally bound the bride and groom. During this time:

The groom would offer a bride price (a valuable gift) as a symbol of his commitment.

The bride would accept and prepare herself for the wedding.


Parallels:

Jesus, the bridegroom, offered His life as the bride price for the Church (Ephesians 5:25).

The Church, as the bride, prepares herself for His return through faith, obedience, and readiness (Revelation 19:7-8 ).

2. The Groom’s Departure to Prepare a Place

After the betrothal, the groom would leave the bride's home to return to his father’s house. There, he would prepare a place for the couple to live, often by adding a room to his father’s house.

The groom’s return date was not fixed and depended on the father's approval of the preparations.

Only the father could give the final approval for when the groom could retrieve his bride.


Parallels:

Jesus told His disciples He was going to prepare a place for them in His Father’s house (John 14:2-3).

The Father determines the timing of Christ’s return to gather His bride, the Church, reflecting the Jewish custom.

3. The Bride’s Preparation

While the groom prepared the home, the bride had to remain vigilant and ready because she did not know the exact time of the groom’s return.

She would keep her lamp filled with oil and prepare her wedding garments.

The groom often came unexpectedly, usually at night, preceded by a shout to announce his arrival.


Parallels:

Jesus warned His followers to stay alert and prepared for His return, likened to the arrival of a bridegroom (Matthew 25:1-13).

The oil in the lamps of the wise virgins represents readiness and spiritual preparation.

4. The Wedding Feast (Nissuin)

When the father deemed the time right, the groom would return to the bride’s house with a procession of friends to bring her to his home.

The wedding culminated in a grand feast lasting several days.


Parallels:

The second coming of Christ will be the moment when He gathers His Church to Himself, likened to the bride being taken to the groom’s house.

The heavenly marriage supper of the Lamb is the ultimate celebration of this union (Revelation 19:9).


5. "No One Knows the Day or Hour"

The phrase, "only the Father knows," resonates directly with the Jewish wedding custom where the timing of the groom’s return was solely the father’s decision. This emphasizes:

The sovereignty of the Father in determining the appointed time.

The element of anticipation and readiness, as the bride and her household did not know the exact time.

Jesus used imagery familiar to His audience, likening His return to a Jewish wedding. The phrase “only the Father knows” aligns with the father’s role in Jewish weddings, highlighting the mystery and anticipation of the second coming. This analogy deepens the understanding of Jesus’ relationship with His Church and the call for believers to remain prepared and vigilant for His return.

Nachmonides:


That's an interesting scripture you have put there.



Matthew 24:36, where Jesus says, "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only," has profound parallels with the customs of a Jewish marriage in Jesus' time. These customs offer a rich metaphor for understanding the relationship between Christ and His Church and the timing of His second coming.

1. The Betrothal (Kiddushin)

In Jewish tradition, a marriage began with a betrothal, a formal agreement that legally bound the bride and groom. During this time:

The groom would offer a bride price (a valuable gift) as a symbol of his commitment.

The bride would accept and prepare herself for the wedding.


Parallels:

Jesus, the bridegroom, offered His life as the bride price for the Church (Ephesians 5:25).

The Church, as the bride, prepares herself for His return through faith, obedience, and readiness (Revelation 19:7-8 ).

2. The Groom’s Departure to Prepare a Place

After the betrothal, the groom would leave the bride's home to return to his father’s house. There, he would prepare a place for the couple to live, often by adding a room to his father’s house.

The groom’s return date was not fixed and depended on the father's approval of the preparations.

Only the father could give the final approval for when the groom could retrieve his bride.


Parallels:

Jesus told His disciples He was going to prepare a place for them in His Father’s house (John 14:2-3).

The Father determines the timing of Christ’s return to gather His bride, the Church, reflecting the Jewish custom.

3. The Bride’s Preparation

While the groom prepared the home, the bride had to remain vigilant and ready because she did not know the exact time of the groom’s return.

She would keep her lamp filled with oil and prepare her wedding garments.

The groom often came unexpectedly, usually at night, preceded by a shout to announce his arrival.


Parallels:

Jesus warned His followers to stay alert and prepared for His return, likened to the arrival of a bridegroom (Matthew 25:1-13).

The oil in the lamps of the wise virgins represents readiness and spiritual preparation.

4. The Wedding Feast (Nissuin)

When the father deemed the time right, the groom would return to the bride’s house with a procession of friends to bring her to his home.

The wedding culminated in a grand feast lasting several days.


Parallels:

The second coming of Christ will be the moment when He gathers His Church to Himself, likened to the bride being taken to the groom’s house.

The heavenly marriage supper of the Lamb is the ultimate celebration of this union (Revelation 19:9).


5. "No One Knows the Day or Hour"

The phrase, "only the Father knows," resonates directly with the Jewish wedding custom where the timing of the groom’s return was solely the father’s decision. This emphasizes:

The sovereignty of the Father in determining the appointed time.

The element of anticipation and readiness, as the bride and her household did not know the exact time.

Jesus used imagery familiar to His audience, likening His return to a Jewish wedding. The phrase “only the Father knows” aligns with the father’s role in Jewish weddings, highlighting the mystery and anticipation of the second coming. This analogy deepens the understanding of Jesus’ relationship with His Church and the call for believers to remain prepared and vigilant for His return.

Wow!

This shows that many of Christ's statements which confuse many readers could actually be understood if one has a good knowledge of Jewish customs! Since Jesus tailored His teachings to His audience.

From your inputs, it means Jesus' answer regarding the timing of His second coming is not a matter of Him not being all knowing but a matter of individual specializations within the Trinity. The timing of the Son's coming is the Father's responsibility. Not the Son's. It is the Father's sole prerogative.

1 Corinthians 12 tells us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost have different responsibilities as they work together for a common goal.

Thanks very much for this input. It is an eye opener regarding that statement of Jesus.

GothamCities:


Wow!

This shows that many of Christ's statements which confuse many readers could actually be understood if one has a good knowledge of Jewish customs! Since Jesus tailored His teachings to His audience.

From your inputs, it means Jesus' answer regarding the timing of His second coming is not a matter of Him not being all knowing but a matter of individual specializations within the Trinity. The timing of the Son's coming is the Father's responsibility. Not the Son's. It is the Father's sole prerogative.

1 Corinthians 12 tells us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost have different responsibilities as they work together for a common goal.

Thanks very much for this input. It is an eye opener regarding that statement of Jesus.

As a matter of fact, you are correct.
It's to the glory of God that the eyes of our understanding be enlightened as the Apostle Paul wrote. I am happy that you see it clearly.


Yes, it's not a matter of Jesus not being all knowing.


The book of Matthew itself was written primarily to a Jewish audience, it employs a lot of Jewish culture and traditions that upon reading would be clear immediately to a Jewish reader.

GothamCities:


Does that negate the fact that the Messiah is from everlasting? No!

Jesus was not fully God in the days of His flesh. Neither was He fully man.

Nachmonides:

That's an interesting scripture you have put there.

Well, the Bible says He was fully God. See below.
"Fully God" implies "fully all-knowing". No?

GothamCities:


Does that negate the fact that the Messiah is from everlasting? No!

Jesus was not fully God in the days of His flesh. Neither was He fully man.

na, Jesus was fully man and fully God. He was/is not a partial God and partial man.

DaddyCoool:




Well, the Bible says He was fully God. See below.
"Fully God" implies "fully all-knowing". No?

Jesus not knowing the day of his coming means it is not his responsibility but the father.

Steep:
na, Jesus was fully man and fully God. He was/is not a partial God and partial man.

You're right.

Thanks for the correction.

DaddyCoool:




Well, the Bible says He was fully God. See below.
"Fully God" implies "fully all-knowing". No?

Yes, you're right.

But then, the Trinity has distinct roles. The timing of the second coming is solely the Father's responsibility.

Nachmonides:



As a matter of fact, you are correct.
It's to the glory of God that the eyes of our understanding be enlightened as the Apostle Paul wrote. I am happy that you see it clearly.


Yes, it's not a matter of Jesus not being all knowing.


The book of Matthew itself was written primarily to a Jewish audience, it employs a lot of Jewish culture and traditions that upon reading would be clear immediately to a Jewish reader.

Gbam!

The bolded really nailed it.

GothamCities:
The verse is Micah 5:2:

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The verse above clearly prophesies about the Messiah, Jesus Christ and clearly states that His going forth is from EVERLASTING. That is to say, He is from eternity past. He has no beginning. Some translations translated the word 'owlams' as ancient times instead of Everlasting. However, META AI clarifies that the term 'Ancient Times" as used by some translators shouldn't be seen as a time calculated within the time of earth but that it means that Christ had been existing before time was created. I have attached a screenshot from Meta AI for your perusal.

I have also attached a screenshot from the original Hebrew Interlinear rendering of the verse. The Hebrew word OWLAMS actually means Everlasting. Jesus is from Everlasting. From eternity past. He had no beginning. The only person who has no beginning is God. Hence if Both God and the Messiah have no beginning, then God is the one who manifested Himself as the Messiah. This will make you understand why Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am" - John 8:58.

No matter the scripture you may want to quote as a Jehovah Witness or as any other worshipper of some false gods, it does not negate the fact that Jesus was from Everlasting as stated in this scripture. Jesus is not Angel Michael. Jehovah Witnesses are peddlers of demonic doctrines. This verse further establishes the truth about the Trinity.

If you have not embraced Jesus, I onish you to come to Jesus today. Do not listen to the lies of satan. Religion cannot save you. Only God can save you by Himself. And this God is He who manifested Himself to man through Jesus Christ the Savior. His hands are stretched forth today, "No one gets unto the Father except through Him" John 14:6. And be rest assured, anyone that comes to Him, He will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.

No one can save you from God's wrath which is coming upon this sinful world. Only God can, and He will do it through Jesus - the One who is from Everlasting to Everlasting.

Is that what the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2 said?

Which Hebrew man read Micah 5,:2 and came to the Trinitarian misinterpretation of that verse?

What is the meaning of the Hebrew word "Origin" @ Micah 5:2?

Meta A.I is not the Hebrew language text.
Just continue TWISTING the holy scriptures and deceiving yourself.
Martin Luther left the Catholic Church because among other issues,he found out from the scriptures that Jesus is archangel Michael.
This belief was very popular among fervent Bible students in his era.

Your Trinitarian Bibles translations already knew that Jesus is the angel of Genesis 16:7.

Janosky:


Is that what the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2 said?

Which Hebrew man read Micah 5,:2 and came to the Trinitarian misinterpretation of that verse?

Meta A.I is not the Hebrew language text.
Just continue TWISTING the holy scriptures

Are you pretending not to see the Hebrew interlinear attached?

Satan's witness, your deception can't work here.

AI has replaced Holy spirit! Jesus is God! Partial God! Fully God! Hermaphroditic man-God!

Whichever one you choose will never be logical to any sane individual.

You don't need Holy spirit to understand the Bible any longer just be Jewish! No wonder Jews have the largest number of Christians in the world lol. Even Jesus's people only use him for excursions and tourism.

Trinity has distinct roles. How does this make sense to you all? The father is in heaven! The son can come to earth and be born as a human! The father can send both the son and spirit around! Can the father come to the earth like the son did? Can the son/spirit send the father around like He does them?

Jesus is not All-knowing! Even the spirit too! Jesus had to get close to the fig tree to know it had no fruit.

Alhamdulillah!

GothamCities:


Are you pretending not to see the Hebrew interlinear attached?

Satan's witness, your deception can't work here.

Oga read the screenshot evidence of complete Jewish bible and stop LYING to yourself.

They know their native Hebrew language more than your Trinitarian mentors twisting Micah 5:2.

"whose origin/beginning is from ancient times/long ago/ the days of yore"
Micah 7:20 and Psalm 143:5 "days of long ago" (@ Micah 5:2 doesn't not mean 'everlasting.'

Oga stop deceiving yourself.

GothamCities:


Yes, you're right.

But then, the Trinity have distinct roles. The timing of the second coming is solely the Father's responsibility.

This brings us to a better understanding of what Jesus said in Acts 1:7. Honestly, I have struggled to understand that verse until tonight.

When the disciples were asking the Lord Jesus about the timing of His second coming, He answered them in Acts 1:7 which states:

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

The right thing Jesus was supposed to say is "...the time and the seasons which only the Father knows." If He had said that, it would have put a question on His omniscience. But He said the Father puts that in His power. I actually didn't understand the putting in His power phrase until tonight after reading the response from my brother Nachmonides.

Now, I understand that Jesus is speaking to His disciples here, telling them that it's not their responsibility to know the timing of the future event, - the restoration of the kingdom to Israel which happens only during the second coming. He emphasized that God the Father has reserved the right to determine the timing of the event, and it's not for humans to know or speculate about the exact timing.

This further proves that it's not a matter of Christ not being all knowing but a matter of understanding the individual roles in the Trinity.

DaddyCoool.

Janosky:


Oga read the screenshot evidence of complete Jewish bible and stop LYING to yourself.

They know their native Hebrew language more than your Trinitarian mentors twisting Micah 5:2.

"whose origin/beginning is from ancient times/long ago/ the days of yore"
Micah 7:20 and Psalm 143:5 "days of long ago" (@ Micah 5:2 doesn't not mean 'everlasting.'

Oga stop deceiving yourself.

Do I need to be arguing with you?

Look at the screenshot below and see the real meaning of the Hebrew Word "Owlams" that was translated "Everlasting". That word does not mean Ancient times. The Jews translated it that way because they cannot come to with the fact that the Messiah who will be born of a woman is God. It's a deceptive translation at best. Just as the deception of the Jehovah Witnesses.

DaddyCoool:




Well, the Bible says He was fully God. See below.
"Fully God" implies "fully all-knowing". No?

Your fellow Trinitarian & Bible scholar disagrees with your claim about Colossians 2:9
"Jesus Christ is NOT fully God "

"

The correct rendition of 1 Timothy 3:16 is "who/which was manifest in the flesh".

Trinitarians smuggled "God" into that verse to deceive gullible folks.
Oga, pls go and .

GothamCities:


Do I need to be arguing with you?

Look at the screenshot below and see the real meaning of the Hebrew Word "Owlams" that was translated "Everlasting". That word does not mean Ancient times. The Jews translated it that way because they cannot come to with the fact that the Messiah who will be born of a woman is God. It's a deceptive translation at best. Just as the deception of the Jehovah Witnesses.

Oga, what is the Hebrew meaning of "origin" in the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2?

Did Meta A.I write the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2?

Definitely not.

Oga continue deceiving yourself.

Janosky:



Your fellow Trinitarian & Bible scholar disagrees with your claim about Colossians 2:9
"Jesus Christ is NOT fully God "

"

The correct rendition of 1 Timothy 3:16 is "who/which was manifest in the flesh".

Trinitarians smuggled "God" into that verse to deceive gullible folks.
Oga, pls go and .

Hello there, go and read what Bill said in his article.

What you're doing is cherry picking, and out of context at that.

Janosky:


Oga, what is the Hebrew meaning of "origin" in the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2?

Did Meta A.I write the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2?

Definitely not.

Oga continue deceiving yourself.

This is the word again translated from Google Translate. Screenshot attached.

GothamCities:


Do I need to be arguing with you?

Look at the screenshot below and see the real meanin of the Hebrew Word "Owlams" that was translated "Everlasting". That word does not mean Ancient times. The Jews translated it that way because they cannot come to with the fact that the Messiah who will be born of a woman is God. It's a deceptive translation at best. Just as the deception of the Jehovah Witnesses.

Oga,who owns the Hebrew language?
Is it your Meta A.I or the Jews?


Meta A.I go teach Yoruba man how to speak Yoruba language & give him meaning to his native tongue?

You just want to deceive yourself.
Please continue.

Nachmonides:


Hello there, go and read what Bill said in his article.

What you're doing is cherry picking, and out of context at that.

Here is the link to the article, for anyone interested:

https://www.billmounce.com/monday-with-mounce/paragraphs-col-2-9-and-4-10

Nachmonides:


Hello there, go and read what Bill said in his article.

What you're doing is cherry picking, and out of context at that.

Oga, what did Bill Mounce write about Colossians 2:9?
"Jesus Christ is NOT fully God."
Oga go and edit Bill Mounce Trinitarian view about Colossians 2:9


Did you see Theos ('God') in the 1 Timothy 3:16 Bill Mounce Greek interlinear?

Oga, tell us nau

Janosky:


Oga, what did Bill Mounce write about Colossians 2:9?
"Jesus Christ is NOT fully God."
Oga go and edit Bill Mounce Trinitarian view about Colossians 2:9


Did you see Theos ('God') in the 1 Timothy 3:16 Bill Mounce Greek interlinear?

Oga, tell us nau

Even after reading the article you still cannot see it.


Colossians 2:8
Βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν·
Beware lest anyone take you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world and not according to Christ,

Colossians 2:9
ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily,




Paul was warning them against false philosophy that is not according to Christ and then goes on to say that in Christ dwells all the fullness of deity bodily.

Janosky:


Oga, what did Bill Mounce write about Colossians 2:9?
"Jesus Christ is NOT fully God."
Oga go and edit Bill Mounce Trinitarian view about Colossians 2:9


Did you see Theos ('God') in the 1 Timothy 3:16 Bill Mounce Greek interlinear?

Oga, tell us nau

Concerning 1Timothy 3:16:

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
And most certainly, great is the mystery of godliness: Who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the Gentiles, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

What's the matter with the scripture that you point out?

Nachmonides:


Here is the link to the article, for anyone interested:

from
https://www.billmounce.com/monday-with-mounce/paragraphs-col-2-9-and-4-10

Bill Mounce was against the format of most Bible translations to separate Paul's thoughts in verse 8 &9.
But he (Mounce) did not follow that format.

Rather,he made sure that the thoughts expressed by Paul in verse 8 flows into verse 9 uninterrupted.

"Christ is NOT fully God" , the point stands.

Steep:
Jesus not knowing the day of his coming means it is not his responsibility but the father.

??

GothamCities:


Yes, you're right.

But then, the Trinity have distinct roles. The timing of the second coming is solely the Father's responsibility.

??

Trinity is singular BTW. See below

Janosky:


Bill Mounce was against the format of most Bible translations to separate Paul's thoughts in verse 8 &9.
But he (Mounce) did not follow that format.

Rather,he made sure that the thoughts expressed by Paul in verse 8 flows into verse 9 uninterrupted.

"Christ is NOT fully God" , the point stands.

Bill Mounce discusses the complexities of translating Greek texts into English, focusing particularly on the use of paragraphs, which are modern editorial tools not present in the original manuscripts. He highlights two examples from Colossians (Col 2:8–9 and Col 4:10) to illustrate how paragraph breaks can influence interpretation.

1. Colossians 2:8–9:

Paul warns against “hollow and deceptive philosophy” (v. 8 ) because “in [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells in bodily form” (v. 9).

Bill critiques the NIV’s decision to place a paragraph break between these verses, arguing that it unnecessarily separates closely connected ideas. He emphasizes the importance of understanding these verses together, as v. 9 provides the theological basis for the warning in v. 8.



2. Colossians 4:10:

He examines the paragraph break in a list of Paul’s associates. Here, the break helps clarify that Tychicus and Onesimus (vv. 7–9) are not Jewish Christians, in contrast to the Jewish associates mentioned later (v. 11b).